Where are my "Gothic" Units

[Deus ret.]

@Omanes: Why are you sorry for the lack of Gothics? You are playing as Aragon so you get Lancers, which are easily the best cavalry unit in the entire game. They have the same stats as late royal bodyguards, but are 40 men instead of 20 and really pack a mean punch on the field.

In contrast, Gothic knights are slow, don't sport too remarkable a charge and have lower attack than most other knights IIRC. All they basically have is their AP melee attack.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Why are you sorry for the lack of Gothics?

It's really a sort of obsession I developed from playing AoE I and it's population limitations. I always used to be obsessed with keeping up with the times and treads to use up my population slots wisely, always insuring that I removed all my old Broad Swordsmen, one population slot, after I researched logistics. This halved the population slot for Barracks infantry BTW. The same was true for when Axemen became outdated in the Bronze Age or when Slingers lost their effect due to better quality archers.

You are playing as Aragon so you get Lancers, which are easily the best cavalry unit in the entire game

Thanks for the tip! Since they required the County Militia building I was weary of their might, thinking that they may just be a little bit like Militia Sargents or Urban Militia - slightly outdated now in late. I also thought that units needed the word "Feudal", "Chivalric" or "Gothic" before their name to be decent troops. I'll check all units out before dismissing them in future!

Thanks for all you advice and tips! Especially to you General Dazza, I'll download some of those sheets when I get home! Thanks again.

[The Unknown Guy]

I am currently playing a HRE game. Assuming the Pope allows me to DEFEND MYSELF against the French, I´ll find out how noteworthy they are

Or rather, I wont, as it´s the first serious catholic game I´ve played (I don´t think I made a good choice picking the harshest, most underdeveloped, and invasion magnet faction)

[caravel]

Thanks for the tip! Since they required the County Militia building I was weary of their might, thinking that they may just be a little bit like Militia Sargents or Urban Militia - slightly outdated now in late.

Lancers do not require the County Militia. That is only required for Pikemen.

[Roark]

@Omanes: In contrast, Gothic knights are slow, don't sport too remarkable a charge and have lower attack than most other knights IIRC. All they basically have is their AP melee attack.

I beg your freaking pardon. They have the highest defence and armour in the game.

They can carve a hole through any formation (except for good polearms) and walk out the other side!

[Roark]

I'm a bit narky that the Genoese don't get them, as I'm playing a Genoese campaign right now...

I just assumed that Vikinghorde would give them to both Genoa and Venice.

:-(

[Martok]

I'm a bit narky that the Genoese don't get them, as I'm playing a Genoese campaign right now...

I just assumed that Vikinghorde would give them to both Genoa and Venice.

:-(

My guess is that it was probably an oversight.

Besides, you have to admit the thought of the great trading cities of northern Italy being able to churn out heavy knights like that -- when they're better known for their militia -- is just....well, wrong. (For that reason, I like to think he left them out on purpose. )

[Vladimir]

Shouldn't Milan and the northern most parts of Italy be able to produce them? I think letting the area of Venice and Genoa produce them would be a mistake but they have to be avaliable in Milan.

[caravel]

Those would be Milanese Knights. Milanese armour is of similar quality to Gothic armour but of a different appearance IIRC.

[Innocentius]

Shouldn't Milan and the northern most parts of Italy be able to produce them? I think letting the area of Venice and Genoa produce them would be a mistake but they have to be avaliable in Milan.

Like Martok pointed out, the Italian city states were never famous for their knights. To be honest, it's quite impossible to recreate the complicated system of condottieri that existed in medieval "Italy" within the limits of MTW. One possible solution would be to make the "Milanese Knight" unit dependant on the Inn, just like Latin Auxillaries in XL.

Indeed Milanese armour was similar in quality to Gothic armour, though of a different appearance. Considering that Gothic units should be available to the following factions (in Vanilla and VI): England, France, Spain, Aragon, Holy Roman Empire and Poland while Milanese armour should be available for Italians, Papal States and Siciliy*.


* This is debatable though, as Sicily doesn't exist in Late. In Early they are more Norman than Italian and in High they are Sicilians, though under German rule.