Tarentum too strong?

[anubis88]

hello!... historycally Rome conquered Tarentum in 272 or 271(can't remember right now ) but in my games Rome has HUGE problems conquering the Italian peninsula... playing as macedon and Carthage im trying to do what i can to help them but Epeiros is just to strong at the beging... Perhaps the garrison at Tarentum should be smaller?

I just want to know what you guys think and what happens with Tarentum in youre games.... Although... it's kinda funny seeing Rome besegied by Epeirus

[Foot]

The reason Taras collapsed (or partly the reason) is because Phyrros died in Sparta. Without the charasmatic king to keep everything in working order, I imagine that Rome took their chance. I believe that in return for the city, Rome allowed the Epeiros garrison to return home.

Foot

[Dan_Grr]

Don't pity the romans, they use to blast through everyone and everything in the games I play. If anything, the epeiros settlement on the italian peninsula is a temporary nuisance.

[abou]

I also think that Epeiros pulled the troops they had garrisoning Taras. Without them the city fell easily to Rome.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

If you are having trouble with Taras, you could do what I do. Assemble both armies together, then march just inside their border. They will split their forces in half and attack you with half, most of the time. Then you just besiege the other half.

[Chris1959]

I've started many campaigns as Rome and Taras is no problem.

Just send the entire Army that is near Arpi and seige immediately. I don't assault it will fall in 5 moves, sometimes Epiros lands a relief army and the garrison will always sally but these can be easily beaten in battle.

I also use that useless fleet to ferry every extra man I can to Rhegion and siege that by move 3, I detach a unit of skirmishers to block the strats of Messina and prevent those annoying Punic allies wandering into southern Italy.

By 271BC the South is secure and it's your choice to concentrate on the North or Sicily.

I've found Epiros will always make peace after Taras falls.

I'm playing on H/M.

[Lomma]

The reason Taras collapsed (or partly the reason) is because Phyrros died in Sparta.

Phyrros died in Argos, actually.

[Wolfshart]

Phyrros died in Argos, actually.

Yup. I also don't think Taras fell because he died. It fell because he fled and left for greece. He had abandoned them to go back to greece because he was beaten many times by the romans and knew the inevitable fate of the city.

[Foot]

Yup. I also don't think Taras fell because he died. It fell because he fled and left for greece. He had abandoned them to go back to greece because he was beaten many times by the romans and knew the inevitable fate of the city.

Eh? Thats not exactly fair. He beat the romans, but only won by a small margin, not enough to secure victory. His plan was to get to sciliy and use that as a money making venture so that he could defeat the Maks. It didn't work so he changed plan and just went for a headlong attack at Pella, then at the last minute he changed tack and went to Argos. What is your proof for the inevitable loss of Taras. Epeiros was a rising star, not a falling one. It was only the death of Phyrrus that caused to to fall.

Foot

[Wolfshart]

Eh? Thats not exactly fair. He beat the romans, but only won by a small margin, not enough to secure victory. His plan was to get to sciliy and use that as a money making venture so that he could defeat the Maks. It didn't work so he changed plan and just went for a headlong attack at Pella, then at the last minute he changed tack and went to Argos. What is your proof for the inevitable loss of Taras. Epeiros was a rising star, not a falling one. It was only the death of Phyrrus that caused to to fall.

Foot

Yeah I was to short in my answer I agree. Though Sicily rather than Italy, which was to serve as a stepping stone, was probably his real objective from the beginning. It was wealthy and rather then the highly disputed peninsula more Greek then not considering it had two major Greek cities and only the Carths to deal with. He won 2 major victories against Rome but he got distracted by Carthage and went to Sicily. He did win almost all his battles but the war of attrition was too much for him. So in a desperate attempt he returned once more into Italy, to fight one more campaign. He was severely defeated in 275 at Malventum, as the Romans had meanwhile learned how to deal with his spearmen and elephants.
The tide having turned against him in force Pyrrhus returned home. I think his biggest folly was his inability to focus on a goal and see it through. I think Taras would have fallen eventually weather Phyrrus died or not. He was more focused on taking the Mak throne then going back to Italy. That was my point. I was just too quick with my answer. Sorry about that.

[Sheep]

If you are having trouble with Taras, you could do what I do. Assemble both armies together, then march just inside their border. They will split their forces in half and attack you with half, most of the time. Then you just besiege the other half.

I've started many campaigns as Rome and Taras is no problem.

He's not having trouble with Taras. He's saying the Rome AI has trouble with Taras.

[Tellos Athenaios]

This game I'm now playing is my first time ever in which the Romans don't mop up the Epeirotes. And that's mainly 'cause I've given Epeiros some extra cash.

EDIT: It's also the first time that I see the Romans invading Greece from the sea... And getting anihilated by the Koinon...

[NeoSpartan]

This game I'm now playing is my first time ever in which the Romans don't mop up the Epeirotes. And that's mainly 'cause I've given Epeiros some extra cash.

EDIT: It's also the first time that I see the Romans invading Greece from the sea... And getting anihilated by the Koinon...

Now thats cool

OK in my Aedui campain when I pushed into Italy Epiros had Taras and another Roman city. HOWEVER, eventhough I was pillaging northern Italy with aims to sack ROME, the Romani managed to take Taras and thier other Roman city (the one below ROME, forgot the name). So, I think the Taras Garrison is fine.

[Thaatu]

OK in my Aedui campain when I pushed into Italy Epiros had Taras and another Roman city. HOWEVER, eventhough I was pillaging northern Italy with aims to sack ROME, the Romani managed to take Taras and thier other Roman city (the one below ROME, forgot the name). So, I think the Taras Garrison is fine.

Romans conquered it before 270bc, which AI rarely does. I imagine it took you more than 10 years to get to Italy, so they conquered it pretty late. Although it's a whole different situation if Epirus took Capua. My gripe is with Romans going north. Historically they took those two regions north of the actual peninsula after 245bc, and ingame by 245bc they are somewhere Poland. If the southern garrisons and Messana garrison were smaller, then that might encourage the First Punic wars.

[LordCurlyton]

Play as Carthage. The Romans will have NO problem then since they will steamroll all in their way in their rush to get to you.

[Bootsiuv]

Eh? Thats not exactly fair. He beat the romans, but only won by a small margin, not enough to secure victory.

Hence the term "phyrric victory"...

[Foot]

Hence the term "phyrric victory"...

Eh, yeh, I know.

Foot

[anubis88]

I've played many times with Carthage and they were always beaten by taras... they don't attack it for many turns... and then Taras captures Arpi and Capua, while rome tries desperatly to conquer the Po valley...
The garrison is too strong, and the General commanding it becames very early a general much more powerfull than everyone rome has...

I bribe Epeiros Army's but still rome need 10 years at best to conquer it...
Playing with BI the punic wars came relatively soon, because rome invaded corsica in 267 bc... but they only attacked messana in 252bc...
When they did so they almost destroyed my army, but as a surpise my allies the KH send a 13 unit stack to Tarentum... at no efect though

sorry if i got a little of the title... But the tarentum garrison should be weakened

[Thaatu]

I also think the Taras garrison should be weakened. The garrison is good if one plays as Rome or Epirus, but it's bad if you play with any other faction. Considering that the troops pulled out in the same year as the campaign starts, and that AI can't do the same, the troop reduction would be plausible. It would give the AI Rome a chance to expand in a historical fashion. My Saka campaign is in the year 240bc and Taras fell in 241bc with Rhegion still holding. Up north Rome has taken the Po valley and Massalia.

Another thing would be to remove the military access deal between Rome and Carthage that they have in the beginning of the game, as sometimes those tiny Carthaginian armies, trying to get from Sicily to Iberia, block the roads for Roman armies conquering the southern Italy.

[LusitanianWolf]

First I want to congratulate the team for their excelent job, I've only played a few hours (studing away from home and without an portable computer yet, only able to play few hours a week ) but I'm in love with it !!!


And about Taras, I've played an little and I didnt had any problem conquering it (being to lazy to do an direct assauld to the city I've sieged it, waited until they conterattacked and then easly kicked their asses in the field), but many times AI is not so smart as it, so I agree that the guarnition should be decreased, or at least given them an worst general. I might be wrong but, as far as I know Pyrro had abandoned Italy, concentrating his full strenghts in Makedonia and almost giving Taras to SPQR with the peace offer. I might be wrong anyway, I've readed it long time ago...

[Thaatu]

And about Taras, I've played an little and I didnt had any problem conquering it (being to lazy to do an direct assauld to the city I've sieged it, waited until they conterattacked and then easly kicked their asses in the field), but many times AI is not so smart as it, so I agree that the guarnition should be decreased, or at least given them an worst general. I might be wrong but, as far as I know Pyrro had abandoned Italy, concentrating his full strenghts in Makedonia and almost giving Taras to SPQR with the peace offer. I might be wrong anyway, I've readed it long time ago...

I believe the current depiction is about correct, but the garrison was withdrawn after Pyrrhos' death (around autumn of 272bc if I recall correctly). Changing the governor of Taras wouldn't do much good, because Helenos Aiakides is a pretty stupid as he is.

[O'ETAIPOS]

I played quite a few games as Makedon, and Romans never took Taras. The problem is this was most probably not due to too strong garnisson (I even tried modding descr strat) For some reason AI is recultant to weaken faction being in war with player I think. When I played as Baktria Rome took Taras with no problem.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

The AI will always go for your faction first. If your faction isn't bordering them, they will go for the rebels. That is the problem, Taras belongs to someone so they go for the rebel towns first.

[Reno Melitensis]

Its very difficult for the AI to act historically. In my VH/M Romani campain it is c.248 BC and Pontus is a dead fraction, Macedon has all of Greece under its conrtol, the first Punic War is of course over and in the east the power struggle between the Ptolemies and Selucia is at its best.

Epirus will eventually move north too, attacking and taking Dalminion. In an effort to save guard my northern border I went to war with Epirus. Dalminion was freed, ( it became an Aidui city !!!!), while Alexander refused to surronder. After an epic battle in Epirus, Ambrakia was captured and Epidamnos plunder, a heroic end to a great fraction.

Cheers.

[Danest]

The odds of the Romans acting historically is perhaps 0. I mean, imagine the Ai taking Iberia and Greece before Germany and Gaul? Simply not going to happen, I'd say.

[Thaatu]

The odds of the Romans acting historically is perhaps 0. I mean, imagine the Ai taking Iberia and Greece before Germany and Gaul? Simply not going to happen, I'd say.

AI expansion is very random, but realistic expansion should at least be a goal. In one game Rome actually went for Iberia after Po valley, but left Sicily alone. Increasing the Po valley garrisons while weakening southern Italy and Sicily just might do the trick. Maybe via a script deny the Eleutheroi the ability to recruit in Messana and Rhegion. I mean weren't those towns in the hands of rogue mercenaries?

[MoROmeTe]

I began a Makedon game last night and something interesting happened. I proceeded to crush KH and then turned on Epeiros. It was unusually easy to take both Ambrakia and Epidamnos, and I discovered towns that had only about 500 population each (mind you, I did not enslave or exterminate). The only relatively tough fight with Pyrrhos himself, who just stood outside Pella while I trampled his kingdon (shouldn't he at least move when I threaten his capital? He never moves!).

Then around 260 I send a spy into Italy, only to find that while Rome was going after the northern rebel towns Epeiros seized all south Italy and was marching on Roma itself apparently unopposed.

Maybe something should be done so that the northern focus of the Romani is lessened and they do try and at least defend their southern cities? Cause I restarted my Mak campaign, toggled FOW and saw how they moved all their armies north and left only family members in the south, while Epeiros took all of his mainland Greece troops to Italy and began taking towns.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

I just started a Makedonian campaign and Pyrrhus moved, he move his entire Greece force to Dalminion and then they all sat there until I conquered everything.

There is no way to alter the AI's focus or behavior. They love going after rebels, it is just hardcoded in.

I had a theory that they were going after "Rome" with their constant northward expansion (since the hardcoded "Rome" is the island in the Baltic). But that wasn't very likely given many other, better explainations (Zebras). I was going to test the stupid theory but got sidetracked by a shiny object.

[Dyabedes of Aphrodisias]

I just started a Makedonian campaign and Pyrrhus moved, he move his entire Greece force to Dalminion and then they all sat there until I conquered everything.

There is no way to alter the AI's focus or behavior. They love going after rebels, it is just hardcoded in.

I had a theory that they were going after "Rome" with their constant northward expansion (since the hardcoded "Rome" is the island in the Baltic). But that wasn't very likely given many other, better explainations (Zebras). I was going to test the stupid theory but got sidetracked by a shiny object.

That little island up there? Why?

Zebras?

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

In 1.2, you couldn't alter the victory conditions and since "Rome" was tied to victory conditions it was moved where it was unlikely to cause problems.

An old saying... I heard hoof noises and thought 'Zebra!'.