Fallout 3 discussion

[Slyspy]

Too many Fallout fans posting at NMA believe that the things which make a Fallout came are the mechanics eg the isometric viewpoint, action points etc. I believe they are wrong. I believe that it is the setting which makes a Fallout game. If Bethseda can capture that then IMO they have made a Fallout game.

Mind you I enjoyed Fallout Tactics, a fact which would have NMA's most rabid, offensive trolls all over me in seconds. And that is just the moderating staff.

[Phatose]

Meh. I'd call it shortsighted to say it was just the setting or just the mechanics. It was both.

[Sensei Warrior]

I'd like to say I read all of this thread, which would not be true, but I had to say something. I am one of those CD worshipping Fallout Junkies. I've been waiting eons for another game in the saga. With that said, I guess I am also one of those nasty modernists who would be kicked under the bus at NMA for my radical tradition be damned ways.

What made Fallout so cool? Well let's take a trip back, back, back in time. <visualize swirliness here>

Let's see part of it was the mechanics, even though large parts of the mechanics were pretty generic. The Fallout System was largely based on G.U.R.P.S. If any of you old duffers remember when RPGs were actually played using Pencil and Paper (yes folks the Stone Age, and we walked uphill both ways to school ) and crawled away from D&D long enough to experience other RPG-ness then you might remember the system. The letters stand for Generic Universal RolePlaying System, just incase you youngins were curious. IIRC, (although much of it is muddled from the toxic fumes from acne medication I was forced to inhale from the throngs of geeky brethren I played with) Action Points, Perks and Traits and the like were (or could be) part of that system. Although a commonly used system in non D&D RPGs, Fallout was particularly adept at integrating it into the Fallout series and might have been the first computer RPG to use that system.

The story, sub-stories, and endings all lent to Fallout's overall feel. Add it to the post nuclear holocaust theme, which seemed to be uncommon for RPGs at that time, and the adult themes that were sprinkled in, gave Fallout a gritty feel. This wasn't your namby pamby elf dancing, mystical quest to save the world, and it sure wasn't your questionably male Japanimae RPG i'm a loner out to save the world even though I dont want to. Nope this was undoubtably grr, in your face, I'm goin out to find some spare parts, get friendly with another digitized character, drinking, shooting, stealin, blowin the bad guys to bit with my howitzer type game, and if I saved the world in the process ... well I promise it was purely by accident, heck I'm not even one of the good guys.

The was the cool little easter egg type things they did. Like boxing "The Masticator" who looked disturbingly alot like Mike 'I'll bite your ear off' Tyson, which incidentally happened in the game. There were all sorts of pop references like the card game 'Tragic the Gathering', and well tons more.

There was the 50s theme to it. The weirdly odd and old music, the clunky buttons, and dont forget your Pip-Boy 2000 (or whatever it was called). And who could forget Action Boy the little icon guy.

It was how all of it was wrapped up together which made the series so great. Now as for the 3rd being a FPS? Well, why not. There are certainly not to many turn based combat sequenced RPGs any more. There are also a staggeringly large amount of RPG-like action games out there. If any thing the FPS view will give the newest Fallout an even grittier feel.

As long as they capture some of the points that are uniquely Fallout, like the Action Boy, your Pip Screen, and the pop references, and a little adult mayhem, wrap it together with a solidly entertaining story plots, and reduce some of the previous Fallouts quirkiness, (dude where's the front of my car?) they'll probably have gone a good long way to updating, and preserving the Fallout series. We'll see.

Anyways, rant over. Did I have a point? No, I dont think so, I really just wanted to post on this thread (and admit to the fact that I once played Pen and Paper RPGS, and not always the standard ones either). I do hope it ends up being a fun, entertaining game.

[Lemur]

Really good article about the strengths and (especially) weaknesses of Oblivion, and what Bethesda needs to address to pull off Fallout 3. I know it's six pages long, but it's six good pages.

[TB666]

A good article.
Agree with it totally.
Now let's just hope Beth does.

[TinCow]

That is a great article and very accurate. Unfortunately, I don't think Bethesda is listening to most of it. Several of my friends work for Bethesda and so discussions about Fallout 3 and gaming in general are a common occurrence for me. Over the last year, I have found myself disagreeing with their opinions a great deal when it comes to this topic. Obvious flaws like leveled creatures will definitely be fixed, but I now expect Fallout 3 to be a disappointing Oblivion with guns.

There is a general perception at Bethesda that PC gaming is not only dead, but fundamentally flawed. Bethesda now believes that console-style action gaming is the wave of the future. They are creating their games with that in mind. Fallout 3 is being created as a console game first, with the PC simply being another platform it can run on. Looking at the latest numbers, from a business perspective I cannot fault them for this decision. However, it also means that they are intentionally dumbing down their gameplay and focusing their efforts on areas that most of us PC gamers do not like.

I will buy Fallout 3. I will play it, and I will probably enjoy it. I doubt it will see much replay, though. I'll pay my money, enjoy the ride the first time, and then stuff it away to gather dust. It may be 'revolutionary' for console gaming, but it will be unexciting and unoriginal for PC gaming.

Yes, Whacker, I was wrong.

[LeftEyeNine]

There will be a Mini Nuke Gun.

That pretty much sums up the upcoming trash for me.

Thanks, Beth, that was the best job.

(Add vulgarity where necessary into the sentence above)

[Veho Nex]

Ladies and Gentlemen, How would you like to do a massive fallout game startings from fallout 1 then going into fallout 2 right on .org. I have both games in my hands right now(well on my jump drive) So who wants to get a good game going first person to post a response on what I post I do.

[TB666]

Some new screenshots
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=272942 (do note that some of the images are not for children)
Looks like they are trying really to capture the feeling.
Has nice retro feel to it.

[Veho Nex]

I think I will destroy bethesda if they screw this game up....

[TB666]

Well judging from the screenshots it looks like they wont.
Just look at the one with the party hats.
It's so Fallout.

[LeftEyeNine]

What do "visuals" mean to a Fallout fan, a phenomenon dated 1997-98 ?

[TB666]

What do "visuals" mean to a Fallout fan, a phenomenon dated 1997-98 ?

To capture the post-apocalyptic world.
A world blown up and rebuilding from scratch and yet with a sense of humour(even tho that's more of a gameplay issue but places like New Reno and The Den was a bit humour if you look at it in a certain way).

[tibilicus]

Although I have enver played a fallout game myself learning of the setting and story it seems like a rather interesting universe.

I think if Bethesda could do a really good job of this, thyre RPG's are normally of a very good quality. What is it fallout fansa are actually unhappy about? Bethesda themselvews admit to being huge fallout fans but is it the fear that they might ruine the gameplay/story?

[TinCow]

I think if Bethesda could do a really good job of this, thyre RPG's are normally of a very good quality. What is it fallout fansa are actually unhappy about? Bethesda themselvews admit to being huge fallout fans but is it the fear that they might ruine the gameplay/story?

Bethesda has been increasingly cutting back on storyline, plot, and freedom of choice while increasing action. A lot of people feel like their games are slowly losing the qualities that make them RPGs and they are simply becoming FPS games. Oblivion is a good example of this. You can go anywhere you want, whenever you want, but the quests are very linear and there are almost none that can be completed in multiple ways. The only choice you get is do the quest or don't do the quest. There aren't multiple choices to make and multiple outcomes that emerge from those choices. Traditional RPGers believe that choice is one of the most important aspects of the genre. Remove the choices, and it becomes more of a free-form FPS, not much different than Crysis.

Fallout fans are particularly rabid about this, because Fallout 1 & 2 had multiple possible solutions and outcomes to every single quest. The games were very much based on free choice of action in an open world. Fallout fans are afraid that, given Bethesda's track record, they will remove one of the things that they believe made the games so great.

[TB666]

Well Beth has already stated that there will be multiple choices when it comes to quests now.

[LeftEyeNine]

Well I'm not one of those "oh look they'll ruin it !11" kinda allergic fan.

But this is more and more turning into a despair for me, rather than sn excitement of years behind, after seeing that we can nuke some places with a gun in hand and all flaws already and overly expressed in the "masterpiece of its release date": Oblivion.

The "shiny paint" coat Oblivion had was worn out as time rained over it and people came to see that it was not a RPG after all.

What's more, when something is being done for consoles as well, I'm always skeptical for I have the every right to, since consoles are not computers. They are designed and regarded the fastest way to play a game -which can kill a RPG. The word "fast" is the silver blade for a RPG in the heart.

TB666, if I was only craving to see a worn out feel, there are dozens of FPSs out there. Release a Fallout 3 with its classic isometric perspective with a revised 2D engine, assuring that it has the right story and the ambience, it will sell more than Oblivion. I guess I'm better put now.

[tibilicus]

Well I'm not one of those "oh look they'll ruin it !11" kinda allergic fan.

But this is more and more turning into a despair for me, rather than sn excitement of years behind, after seeing that we can nuke some places with a gun in hand and all flaws already and overly expressed in the "masterpiece of its release date": Oblivion.

The "shiny paint" coat Oblivion had was worn out as time rained over it and people came to see that it was not a RPG after all.

To be honest I couldn't agree with you more though. It was good till the main quest was over but then really is there any point to me doing side quests? I couldn't become the infamous outlaw thief I wanted to mainly because the AI guards would follow and harass you till you ended up in prison.


(n)

[TB666]

A gamespot preview
http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/rpg/...opslot;title;1
Sounds nice IMO.

[tibilicus]

"According to a Bethesda representative, the primary game is shaping up to have somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 hours of gameplay"


Quote from that article. Not sure if it's just me but I normally expect a lot more hours worth of gameplay out of a game than that. Fair enough BIoshock was great and I did that in 18 hours but I to got the feeling then that whilst great, the replayability factor was low.

[TB666]

"According to a Bethesda representative, the primary game is shaping up to have somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 hours of gameplay"


Quote from that article. Not sure if it's just me but I normally expect a lot more hours worth of gameplay out of a game than that. Fair enough BIoshock was great and I did that in 18 hours but I to got the feeling then that whilst great, the replayability factor was low.

Well pretty sure that there will be downloaded content, expansion packs and as stated in the article, multiple ways of doing things. All these things will add to actual gameplay.
In Bioshock there was only one way of doing things. Sure there was the to kill or not to kill children thing and gave you a different ending but overall that had little to no effect on actual gameplay since the game played out exactly the same.

Hopefully just like in Fallout(and from the sound of things) you will have a reason to go back do things differently.

[TinCow]

To be fair, the full quote is:

"According to a Bethesda representative, the primary game is shaping up to have somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 hours of gameplay, though it will offer dozens of hours of other stuff to do for players who enjoy exploring side quests and other types of content."

The way I'm reading this is that the main storyline is 20 hours, but that's without doing any side quests. I definitely wish the main storyline was longer than that, but the total game time looks more like 20 + "dozens" of hours. Sounds to me a lot like Oblivion in its length, with a pathetically quick main storyline but far more to do on the sides.

[Fragony]

Short storyline suits me just fine if the replay value is high enough, and it looks like it will be.

[Lemur]

Finally, the world is catching up with Fallout. Soon you will be able to buy Rad-X and RadAway.

[Spino]

I don't understand the hate being directed at this game. Better this than nothing! It sounds like a gamer's wet dream to wait for the 'perfect developer' to come along and develop the perfect sequel to one of the greatest rpg series of all time. Besides, I've been dying for a first person Fallout-esque game for years.

Oddly enough I am somewhat comforted by the idea that the same developer who made Morrowind and Oblivion is doing FO3. After all those were extremely moddable games that were massively improved by the fan community. Barring another appearance of underwhelming NPC AI (i.e. Oblivion's shoddy Radiant AI system) modders should be able to do wonders with FO3.

[LeftEyeNine]

I don't understand the hate being directed at this game. Better this than nothing! It sounds like a gamer's wet dream to wait for the 'perfect developer' to come along and develop the perfect sequel to one of the greatest rpg series of all time. Besides, I've been dying for a first person Fallout-esque game for years.

Oddly enough I am somewhat comforted by the idea that the same developer who made Morrowind and Oblivion is doing FO3. After all those were extremely moddable games that were massively improved by the fan community. Barring another appearance of underwhelming NPC AI (i.e. Oblivion's shoddy Radiant AI system) modders should be able to do wonders with FO3.

I guess that's the basic of your inability to understand.

I say: "Better nothing that this."

And I'm not certainly not looking into a "modding toolkit". I want a game.

[Veho Nex]

Is beth going to turn into the next EA games. Killing our favorites one game at a time? or will they become the gods of the gaming world, reviving our favorites one game at a time!

[TinCow]

I have just returned from a 5 hour session of playing Fallout 3. The NDA I had to sign limits what I can say to an extreme extent, so my comments will be pretty vague. Please don't ask me any specific information about the game, because I cannot divulge it.

As Whacker well knows, I was somewhat skeptical coming into the game. I enjoyed Oblivion, but it could have been much better, and I thought it was a significant step down from Morrowind. Fallout 3 is definitely far more like Oblivion than it is like Fallout 1 and 2. On the surface, this comment will disappoint many people. However, a lot of the flaws in Oblivion have been rectified in Fallout 3. I'm pretty sure I can't say what those are, but Bethesda has definitely learned from a lot of their errors.

That's not to say the game is perfect. There are still many aspects that could use improvement. I can tell you for a fact right now that hardcore NMA-style fans of Fallout will hate this game. However, everyone who liked Oblivion will love it. I think a large number of people who didn't like Oblivion will love it as well, due to the improvements that have been made.

I don't think it's a game that is going to stand up well against some of the classic RPGs of yesteryear, like Fallout 1, Fallout 2, Planescape Tormet, etc. This is not an old-school RPG and you shouldn't expect it to be. However, it will certainly hold its own against the current generation of RPGs. I think it will turn out to be on par with Vampire: Bloodlines. Possibly better, possibly worse. All in all, I think it will be worth buying and I think you'll get your money's worth of entertainment.

Oh, and the modding community is going to go nuts over it.

[TB666]

So have they decided to allow the game to be moddable ??
Because in the last interview they haven't decided yet(would be stupid if they didn't make it moddable, Oblivion is pretty saved thanks to the mods).

[TinCow]

I didn't see that interview, could you post a link?