Fallout 3 discussion

[TevashSzat]

I think Morrowind was the perfect sandbox game, you could go out into the world with no idea what the main plot was. I played for six months without realizing there was a main plot. Playing Oblivion and Fallout 3 without following the main plot doesn't feel right.

Demons are taking over the world!! OK I'm gonna spend a few days looking for nirnroot.
I've just ostracised myself from my lifelong home to follow my father. I know, I won't bother actually looking for him, instead I'll help some nutter write a book.

That is why I could never really get into Oblivion or Fallout 3, it just felt wrong.

Also, Morrowing just seemed so vast compared to Oblivion. You had way more than just 3 guilds, you had the 3 houses, over half a dozen guilds, three vampire clans. I easily played the game for 100 hours+ on just one character and didn't finish everything or even get that close to. Only thing I hated about it is that I couldn't find anything, especially crucial quest palces, and everyone gave horrible directions.....

[johnhughthom]

Only thing I hated about it is that I couldn't find anything, especially crucial quest palces, and everyone gave horrible directions.....

You know there is one quest place I can't find to this day, one of the Morag Tong contracts. It's somewhere on that island to the north.

[Magraev]

I'm a bit surprised I didn't love this game more.

Somehow they've managed to remove the magic from Fallout 1 and 2. Those two games are favorites of mine even though they crashed all the time. This one got put on the shelf after a couple of weeks.

Sad really. Let's hope some of the downloadable content gets it running again. We really need a bigger world and less of a railroad plot.

Silly that you have to be very far in the storyline before you can use powerarmor too. There should be an alternative way to get acces to that (maybe from the outcasts).

[TinCow]

More info on the FO3 DLCs:

http://au.xboxlive.ign.com/articles/937/937202p1.html

Of particular note is that they will include new perks, and the third one will increase the level cap.

[Sarmatian]

I'm a bit surprised I didn't love this game more.

Somehow they've managed to remove the magic from Fallout 1 and 2. Those two games are favorites of mine even though they crashed all the time. This one got put on the shelf after a couple of weeks.

Sad really. Let's hope some of the downloadable content gets it running again. We really need a bigger world and less of a railroad plot.

Silly that you have to be very far in the storyline before you can use powerarmor too. There should be an alternative way to get acces to that (maybe from the outcasts).

Power Armour here isn't really that powerful, so you're not missing out much. I've found Reilly's Rangers armour good enough for the entire game. Light, good protection, raises your skills, can be repaired with ordinary combat armour... No need for bulky PA...

[TinCow]

The GECK (Fallout 3 modding kit) has been released.

http://geck.bethsoft.com/

[Geezer57]

Somehow they've managed to remove the magic from Fallout 1 and 2. Those two games are favorites of mine even though they crashed all the time.

Not to hijack the thread (just a F.Y.I.), but the updated downloadable versions of Fallout 1, 2, and Tactics from Good Old Games are stable under XP and Vista. They're also very affordable at $5.99 US each.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not affiliated in any way with GOG.com, nor do I obtain any benefit from recommending them - just a satisfied customer. Their catalog started out pretty small, but is now getting larger.

[frogbeastegg]

by your definition Fallout 3 is a Sand box, just a smaller one then Oblivion which was a smaller one again than Morrowind

~ It's the common definition and I'm not the only one who finds that Fallout 3 doesn't fit it.

A small sandbox isn't much of a sandbox because you don't have space to play. Fallout 3's level cap is much too low, it's far too easy to max out your character, it doesn't take long comparatively speaking to make a character who is good at everything, and there aren't many non-plot quests. Above all you have limited scope for playing with the world, or doing incredibly random and silly things. Putting a grenade in someone's pocket is one. I can't think of many other examples. Where's the equivalent of breaking into Vivec's temple and killing him without doing the main quest? Where's the equivalent to murdering the master assassin with one of the poison apples he gives you?

[rajpoot]

In my opinion, while Fallout 3 has fewer quests and is more limited than Oblivion is (which in turn is supposed to be more limited then Morrowind), it has more variety in it's quests.....and the world is certainly more interesting. I tried Morrowind, after I had finished with Oblivion and the plugins, truth be told, I got bored quickly, there is much more err....quantity....but lesser quality.
I mean it's kind of what GTA 4 and GTA SA are different in. San Andreas was huge, but GTA 4 has more to do, I think.
Anyhow, we do have a nice group of people working on Tamrial Rebuilt, making modules for TES3 engine..........if enough people try, we might soon have a Wasteland Rebuilt too.

[Magraev]

Power Armour here isn't really that powerful, so you're not missing out much. I've found Reilly's Rangers armour good enough for the entire game. Light, good protection, raises your skills, can be repaired with ordinary combat armour... No need for bulky PA...

Yeah I ended up going that way too. But In the other games power armor was so much better that the other types that I wanted to use on in this game too. As it turned out I only wore it for a few missions before swapping back to Reillys superior gear.

[Kekvit Irae]

The only problems I see with power armor is that is comes too late in the game to wear (unless you powergame through the main quest up to that point), and that it gives minuses to AGI (not really a bad thing if you are a melee character). For a Energy Weapons character, power armor is VITAL, at least the Tesla Armor is. Otherwise, you can get a 50 DR, +1 CHA power armor with no minuses to AGI by doing the Shoot Them In The Head quest and using the keys yourself instead of turning them in. Because said armor cannot be repaired with other armors, it's best to give it to a companion (companion weapons and armor don't degrade).

[JR-]

so in sense, the game is pretty much Oblivion with guns? What do you think?

nah, i got bored of oblivion, but i'm still thoroughly hooked on F3.

[Zenicetus]

The only problems I see with power armor is that is comes too late in the game to wear (unless you powergame through the main quest up to that point), and that it gives minuses to AGI (not really a bad thing if you are a melee character). For a Energy Weapons character, power armor is VITAL, at least the Tesla Armor is. Otherwise, you can get a 50 DR, +1 CHA power armor with no minuses to AGI by doing the Shoot Them In The Head quest and using the keys yourself instead of turning them in. Because said armor cannot be repaired with other armors, it's best to give it to a companion (companion weapons and armor don't degrade).

It was probably a mistake to include power armor training in the main quest line. They could have done it as a side quest tied to character level (i.e. you have to be strong enough to survive a mid-level enemy encounter to get the training), or just make it a perk you can select somewhere around level 10 or 12. I ended up using the Ranger armor until the last part of the game, when I switched to Tesla (when I had access) and finally the Shoot-em-in-the-head armor at the endgame. I wore that myself because by that time I was taking very little damage, and didn't need repairs.

It was a little disappointing that all the weapon and armor "styles" weren't that strongly differentiated. By the endgame, you have enough character advancement points (with the right perk selection) to max out two weapon types, and you can wear any armor. You're not forced to specialize as a "tank" (power armor with heavy weapons), "rogue" (sneak attack with lighter armor and small arms), or "wizard" (energy weapon specialist?). I know that games shouldn't all have to conform to holy trinity types like that, but I was expecting at least some ability to specialize, with hard choices between styles, and significant rewards for choosing a specific combat style. Instead, you can basically choose the best of everything for your character, which feels too much like powergaming. If you pay attention to the better perks and skills, you unavoidably become an invincible, uber death machine in the entire second half of the game.

All that aside, and agreeing with Froggie's points about the weak writing and quest design....

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Speaking of which, what a disappointment that the core quest involved a water treatment plant! That's the best they could come up with? I know they need to leave room for sequels and other stories in this setting, but that just seemed like they couldn't come up with any good ideas. Heck, the minor "disarm the bomb" sidequest in Megaton would have been a better main quest line.

... I still enjoyed playing the game. I think it was mainly the environment. Too many dungeon crawls, yeah, but Bethesda did a good job with downtown D.C. and the Wasteland. I was continually amazed at how many unique static models were in the game. I was always stumbling across things I hadn't seen before. It was fun just running around in that world.

[tibilicus]

recently got this game for the 360 and can some one tell me who also has the 360 version if they found it incredibly unstable at time?

Normally 360's aren't renowned for build quality and I occasionally get the odd disk read error or system freeze but this has been amplified by Fallout. My 360 just doesn't sound healthy when running it sometimes, especially for a much longer duration.

[rajpoot]

I don't own a 360 myself, but my cousin does, and while someone else suggests something, I can tell you this, that according to him, his 360 always makes a noise like an old motorbike trying to go up a steep hill........but it's working fine. Just noisy.

[coalition]

Possibly one of the best games I have played...

[frogbeastegg]

recently got this game for the 360 and can some one tell me who also has the 360 version if they found it incredibly unstable at time?

Normally 360's aren't renowned for build quality and I occasionally get the odd disk read error or system freeze but this has been amplified by Fallout. My 360 just doesn't sound healthy when running it sometimes, especially for a much longer duration.

It crashed a couple of times on me, hung up, and had some nasty glitches. I didn't have a single disc error, and the console sounded the same as it always does while playing.

If you have a hard drive and the NXE update I suggest you install it. That will remove the strain on your disc drive and make the machine quieter, if nothing else. It could make it more stable if the disc or disc drive are involved in your problems.

[tibilicus]

It crashed a couple of times on me, hung up, and had some nasty glitches. I didn't have a single disc error, and the console sounded the same as it always does while playing.

If you have a hard drive and the NXE update I suggest you install it. That will remove the strain on your disc drive and make the machine quieter, if nothing else. It could make it more stable if the disc or disc drive are involved in your problems.

Think I'll probably try that. I guess if that doesn't work I will have to face the impending truth that my 360 could be nearing that tunnel of light

Edit: That seems to of maybe done the trick.

[rvg]

FO3 is not a bad game, but it could have been much-much better. For one thing, too few quests. In Oblivion you'd be tripping all over quests at every location. Not so in FO3 and it shows. Then there's a lack of the evil path thru the main quest. Good or bad, one still has to work for the good guys to finish the game. That's a minus as well. Also, I wish the map was a bit bigger with a few more cities and some equivalent of Oblivion's guilds.

Of course, there are good things: there's nothing quite like running around in a full suit of power armor frying mutants with the flamer while listening to "Butcher Pete" on GNR.

[Major Robert Dump]

Regarding moriarty and his accent: yes there was immigration from overseas by wealthy europeans who viewed the american wasteland as a new frontier, although not sure if he came with Tenpenny or not.

I love the game and I hate it. I feel its a little too easy and linear in the main quest, but then again I'm a bit obsessive in exploring and collecting:

- I'm level 15, with 5 maxed skills and all the others over 70 thanks to the comprehension perk, 42 books and lots of bobbles.


-I have a tendency to hang on to temporary party members to use as mules and backup fighters (by never actually completing the quest)...theres sydney, who offers to help you find the Declaration of Independence, you can heal her but not gear her......theres Red and the other guy from Bigtown who you rescue from supermutants, you cant heal them but you can equip them....theres the hooker from Dukovs, you cant heal or equip her but she is fun to look at (she eventually called me a **** for not taking her to rivet and left, i covertly followed her and watched her wander into a supermutant camp)....theres the guy you find outside of Little Lamplight who is getting kicked out for becoming an adult, you can equip him but not heal him...and of course theres dogmeat and the regular party members....I've had Mr Gutsy, RIP via Deathclaws at old olmey, by far the hardest fight I've had yet....and now I have Jericho who is by far the best vocal and conversationalist yet. I'm a bad, bad person and I know of the the ghoul in the underworld who I can hire and also the hot little slave girl in Paradise Falls, but I'm saving them for when Jericho dies, which doesnt appear to be anytime soon since he autoheals after combat, had unlimited ammo and is currently wearing Power Armor..

But even without all these people (I usually have them hanging in my house at TenPenny, its like a little party) I think its too easy with Vats and a little run and gun. Blasted my way out of the enclave with nary a scratch and I wasnt wearing armor (just my trade suit and the wig from the silly bot in the archives) because I started that quest after a break from the game and forgot to re-equip.

there have been a lot of entertaining, if not surreal, moments in the game:

-wandering out of some sewers I found a group of 8 raiders circled around a 9th raider wearing just his underwear, punching him and asking him if he wanted his mommy. they all attacked me, including mr underwear.
-came around the corner of a house in the cannibal town with my sniper scope up, only to find myself zoomed in on a little girl sitting very unlady like with her panties showing, to which her father told me "she's only 13 you know"
-offered to have a threesome with the guy who has the hots for the nuka-cola addict chic, at which point he yelled "hell yeah, I know where to get some nuka-cola" and ran into a mob of radscorpions and died


That being said, I dont like the fast travel system and how it relates to the spawn bubble. You see, AI characters that would normally travel their path unabated (because if you arent there, they arent figthing) will in fact run into trouble if you, say, try to escort them. So if you invest in the merchants and decide to protect your investment so you get to see a little return, your escorting them will actually get them into more fights because they are in your spawn bubble. On my good character, 4 of the merchants have been killed by Talon mercenaries who were, I assume, coming for me. I do have to admit though it's quite funny to be walking along and hear gunshots in the distance, turn around and watch a merchant, his guard and the pack mule blown sky high by some exploding cars. FYI the pack horses are kinda buggy so if a merchant does die, you can try to run down his pack and kill it and loot it but they do have a tendency to run into walls and disappear, so you gotta be quick about it.

So far my favorite weapon is the kneecapper sawed off shotgun. I think I have the special versions of all the weapons except the 10mm SMG, which sydney carries and i will get when i kill her and eat her, and the scoped 44 and the assault rifles.

Oh yeah, the exploding cars are a bit over the top as well.

This game is way, way better than oblivion and honestly better than most games I've played, I just don't like the mechanics of questing and how the game ends when you beat it. long post, I'll stop now.

[Forward Observer]

--------------------------------------------

Oh yeah, the exploding cars are a bit over the top as well.

This game is way, way better than oblivion and honestly better than most games I've played, I just don't like the mechanics of questing and how the game ends when you beat it. long post, I'll stop now.

The exploding vehicles are no fun if you happen to forget and try to use them as cover while being fired at. Conversely they come in pretty handy if you can entice your adversaries to be in close proximity to them when they explode. This tactic has saved my bacon more than once when I was trying to take on Enclave roadblocks while being pretty much outmatched in armor and weapons.

A lot of people have complained about the ending, and in a recent interview, one of the lead designers of the game has admitted that they misjudged how people would react to the game mechanic associated with the end of the main quest, and that they plan on correcting that aspect in future installments.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

-----It's not that it was particularly bad story telling, although it did have some problems in logic. It really didn't sense that you had acquired a companion in Falkes who could perform the final task since he is imune to radiation, but then he cops out with some sort of destiny cliché.

The biggest complaint that most people have is that regardless of what one does in the last part of the main quest, it simply ends the game. I felt, like a lot of others, that it was a simply a big immersion killer to have to go back to a point prior to the end of the main quest, and simply ignore it if I wanted to continue to explore the wasteland and play out all the side quests.

They should have enabled the player to survive, so that after the epilogue, one could simply continue to play.

Cheers

P.S.
If you want a real exercise in escorting, try protecting Hannibal and his runaway slave group as they head to the Lincoln Memorial in the Head of State side quest. I think the developers did not intend the player to actually escort them, but instead simply meet them there. I didn't know this and spent the better part of 8 or 9 real time hours trying to complete the quest by physically escorting them.

If you do escort them, Hannibal and his group wander all over the map instead of heading directly for the Lincoln Memorial and it probably take 3 or 4 game days to do this because they walk at a snail's pace. They get to the first station north of the mall area, but then turn west-- wading across the Potomac towards Megaton. At Megaton they turn south and walk all the way to the Brotherhood of Steel camp. Then they cross a bridge at the Jefferson Memorial to head back north. Unfortunately I tried to escort them at a point in the game, just after the Enclave had taken over the Jefferson memorial in the main quest. After this event in the main quest the Enclave erects a force field around the memorial and sets up roadblocks all around the wasteland.

Consequently besides numerous animal attacks, and plenty of raider shoot-outs, I had to fight my way through no less than 4 Enclave road blocks. Fortunately, you can tell Hannibal to stop while you scout ahead. He will give you 6 hours to do this and you use can use the time to take out all the nasties in their path. They could not survive otherwise. It was an absolute epic journey, and quite a challenge---requiring many saves and re-loads, but it was kind of fun too.

The problem was that we came to a dead end when Hannibal's group could not get through the Enclave force field around the Jefferson memorial. By that time I had read on the Bethesda forums that the correct way to complete the quest was not to escort them at all, but simply fast travel to the memorial and wait for them to show up at one of the metro stations in the vicinity of the memorial.

[Major Robert Dump]

I need to try escorting him with my good character. Escorting is actually one of the more fun aspects of the game if you know what to expect. I noticed that freed slaves, like the one at the raider stronghold with the bohemoth mutant, will pick up weapons and ammo that you don't get first. This makes for entertaining gameplay when you travel back there and get ambushed by raiders and end up being helped by halfwit freed slaves in their underwear with assault rifles.

[frogbeastegg]

Adding in link to the topic with thoughts on the operation anchorage DLC. I'm leaving it seperate as it will make it easier for people to find information specifically on it; this topic is big and covers plenty already. A link here should hopefully keep the two tied loosely together.

[TinCow]

There's a pretty decent preview of DLC 2 - The Pitt up on The Escapist:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/arti...nds-On-at-DICE

[Zenicetus]

I just read that Escapist preview. WARNING: it has a few spoilers about the plot line. Don't read it if you want a completely fresh start on the expansion. Although frankly, the plot developments are fairly predictable once you know the basic "post-apocalypse city run by slavers" premise. We've all seen this movie before.

On the one hand, it's good that it's a more story-driven episode, and not another linear shoot-'em-up like the Anchorage DLC. That was very disappointing. What I'm wondering about though, is how much fun it will be to play with a capped level 20 character? That almost didn't matter in Anchorage, except for making easy combat even easier. There wasn't enough time or tactical potential in that short episode to make much use of the fancier skills and abilities. With the new DLC though, I don't know if that will work. One of the main things that keeps players motivated in RPG's is the continual increase in skills and abilities. When that's capped off, the game has to offer a very compelling story, or very challenging new enemies (which this might do, based on the preview), or gear and weapons you haven't seen before. One or two new weapons are mentioned in the preview, but I'm not a melee specialist that would be interested. If they have something for a sniper, maybe.

This time I'm going to wait for some user feedback before jumping on it.

[tibilicus]

There's a pretty decent preview of DLC 2 - The Pitt up on The Escapist:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/arti...nds-On-at-DICE

You sir have just made my day.

[Veho Nex]

I heard a rumor the pit was just released, but my internet isn't working... still, about the only website i can seem to get on is this and my brothers website. can someone confirm?

[frogbeastegg]

The PC version was released and is available AFAIK.

The xbox version was released, discovered to be a huge, buggy mess and was pulled down. It's got giant red placeholder markers instead of new art assets, floating trees and rocks, crashes, and all sorts of other issues. Glad I didn't buy it.

[tibilicus]

I heard a rumor the pit was just released, but my internet isn't working... still, about the only website i can seem to get on is this and my brothers website. can someone confirm?

Yes it is, but I personally wouldn't get to excited about it..

So far I'm actually finding it less enjoyable than Operation Anchorage. Also if your a high level character you probably wont get much out of it unless you crank your difficulty right up.

[Veho Nex]

Bought it but as I was installing it computer froze up and died. That was on wensdat right after I read FBE's post. Anyways, I think I killed the HD where FO3 was on, when it was only a IDE cable death. So I have to start anew. I'll give a review when I am done.