Fallout 3 discussion

[Phatose]

With all due respect, Bioshock has gotten a pretty big bye from the System Shock fans on account of being a spiritual successor, not a direct sequel. If it had been system shock 3, they'd be ripping into the core gameplay mercilessly. It has some steps forward, but also some leaps backward.

[econ21]

With all due respect, Bioshock has gotten a pretty big bye from the System Shock fans on account of being a spiritual successor, not a direct sequel.

Well, as with Fallout, "the fans" are not a monolithic bloc. But as it happens, you are right about one fan at least - I did write off Bioshock at first. The premise just did not sound nearly as engaging as that of System Shock. And I was worried it would be too much of a shooter, not a genuine spiritual successor. However, the info that came out over the last year raised my expectations - e.g. the video of the big daddy/little sisters, arguably the best aspect of the game - and I was pleasantly surprised to see them met by the full game.

It has some steps forward, but also some leaps backward.

Indeed. I think it is not as stellar as System Shock 2 (the logs don't grip me as much and the gameplay is not so scarey). But it is much closer to being a successor than I would have imagined prior to first playing it a week ago. If Fallout 3 stands in relation to Fallout 2 as Bioshock does in relation to System Shock 2, I think most reasonable fans would be happy. But I doubt it will (given that FO3 team is new to the series, whereas Bioshock was made by some of the SS2 team).

[Slyspy]

Too many Fallout fans posting at NMA believe that the things which make a Fallout came are the mechanics eg the isometric viewpoint, action points etc. I believe they are wrong. I believe that it is the setting which makes a Fallout game. If Bethseda can capture that then IMO they have made a Fallout game.

Mind you I enjoyed Fallout Tactics, a fact which would have NMA's most rabid, offensive trolls all over me in seconds. And that is just the moderating staff.

[Phatose]

Meh. I'd call it shortsighted to say it was just the setting or just the mechanics. It was both.

[Sensei Warrior]

I'd like to say I read all of this thread, which would not be true, but I had to say something. I am one of those CD worshipping Fallout Junkies. I've been waiting eons for another game in the saga. With that said, I guess I am also one of those nasty modernists who would be kicked under the bus at NMA for my radical tradition be damned ways.

What made Fallout so cool? Well let's take a trip back, back, back in time. <visualize swirliness here>

Let's see part of it was the mechanics, even though large parts of the mechanics were pretty generic. The Fallout System was largely based on G.U.R.P.S. If any of you old duffers remember when RPGs were actually played using Pencil and Paper (yes folks the Stone Age, and we walked uphill both ways to school ) and crawled away from D&D long enough to experience other RPG-ness then you might remember the system. The letters stand for Generic Universal RolePlaying System, just incase you youngins were curious. IIRC, (although much of it is muddled from the toxic fumes from acne medication I was forced to inhale from the throngs of geeky brethren I played with) Action Points, Perks and Traits and the like were (or could be) part of that system. Although a commonly used system in non D&D RPGs, Fallout was particularly adept at integrating it into the Fallout series and might have been the first computer RPG to use that system.

The story, sub-stories, and endings all lent to Fallout's overall feel. Add it to the post nuclear holocaust theme, which seemed to be uncommon for RPGs at that time, and the adult themes that were sprinkled in, gave Fallout a gritty feel. This wasn't your namby pamby elf dancing, mystical quest to save the world, and it sure wasn't your questionably male Japanimae RPG i'm a loner out to save the world even though I dont want to. Nope this was undoubtably grr, in your face, I'm goin out to find some spare parts, get friendly with another digitized character, drinking, shooting, stealin, blowin the bad guys to bit with my howitzer type game, and if I saved the world in the process ... well I promise it was purely by accident, heck I'm not even one of the good guys.

The was the cool little easter egg type things they did. Like boxing "The Masticator" who looked disturbingly alot like Mike 'I'll bite your ear off' Tyson, which incidentally happened in the game. There were all sorts of pop references like the card game 'Tragic the Gathering', and well tons more.

There was the 50s theme to it. The weirdly odd and old music, the clunky buttons, and dont forget your Pip-Boy 2000 (or whatever it was called). And who could forget Action Boy the little icon guy.

It was how all of it was wrapped up together which made the series so great. Now as for the 3rd being a FPS? Well, why not. There are certainly not to many turn based combat sequenced RPGs any more. There are also a staggeringly large amount of RPG-like action games out there. If any thing the FPS view will give the newest Fallout an even grittier feel.

As long as they capture some of the points that are uniquely Fallout, like the Action Boy, your Pip Screen, and the pop references, and a little adult mayhem, wrap it together with a solidly entertaining story plots, and reduce some of the previous Fallouts quirkiness, (dude where's the front of my car?) they'll probably have gone a good long way to updating, and preserving the Fallout series. We'll see.

Anyways, rant over. Did I have a point? No, I dont think so, I really just wanted to post on this thread (and admit to the fact that I once played Pen and Paper RPGS, and not always the standard ones either). I do hope it ends up being a fun, entertaining game.

[Lemur]

Really good article about the strengths and (especially) weaknesses of Oblivion, and what Bethesda needs to address to pull off Fallout 3. I know it's six pages long, but it's six good pages.

[TB666]

A good article.
Agree with it totally.
Now let's just hope Beth does.