Fallout 3 discussion

**tibilicus** · 03-28-2009, 00:08

I can actually say towards the end the Pitt was really quite good if not a bit short.

With out spoiling to much I'll just say the moral choice you have to make is really quite challenging and a taxing one, much harder than any decisions made within the main campaign..

**frogbeastegg** · 05-10-2009, 19:37

I waited a month before buying The Pit. Now it's fully fixed and the game's level cap has been raised I downloaded it, along with Broken Steel.

The Pit is hard to recommend. It's better than Operation Anchorage, in that it's not pure run and gun. It's underwhelming in that the new area is cramped and dull, the main quest is short and dull, the new NPCs are dull and dull, and it features the mother of all Fallout collection quests ... which is annoying and dull. Collecting 100 steel ingots took me over an hour with a printed guide, and would have been intolerable without one.

The only good is that while the two sides may look obviously good and evil, they're not. Don't get too excited though; the truth is simultaneously obvious a mile away and poorly telegraphed. It revolves around a child born with a unique resistance to mutation.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Broken Steel is ... meh. Quests which take you through yet more tunnel dungeons, followed by an assault on a huge base where your options get stripped away. Got 100 points in stealth? Tough, these enemies can still spot you most of the time. Want to hack and use something other than brute force? Tough, all you do is release more enemies or turn off a couple of turrets. The base is filled with tedious enemies who take and give a lot of damage, and behave exactly the same as the last 640 humanoids you killed. Yawn.

Broken Steel has killed the game's stability. I'm playing the xbox version and it's locked the console up multiple times. It has severe frame rate issues in that huge base. I'm seeing quite a few glitches I never encountered before, such as shots from weapons getting stuck and hanging in mid air forever.

(At this point I feel obliged to add that the first version of Broken Steel had problems registering achievements on the xbox, and was broken on the PC. The xbox version now has that fixed, and I haven't heard the same about the PC version. I would also add that the xbox fix was not as good as promised, and has broken some people's gamertags and achievements for Fallout 3 entirely. This after the debacle of The Pit, where it took 4 or 5 attempts before the xbox recieved a fully functional version of the DLC. A lot of people lost their game saves in that mess, primarily those with high level characters and many hours invested in the game. Completely and utterly pitiful.)

One of the new enemy types, the ghoul reaver, is either a glitchy mess or completely ill-conceived. It spasms around like the animation is fighting with the ragdoll effects, and soaks up so much damage it's nearly impossible to kill. I'm talking hundreds of bullets from a fully repaired top end weapon here. In a fight with 2 of them my combat shotgun went from fully repaired to completely broken before I killed them, and I used a unique laser and a unique Chinese assault rifle for lots of shots too. It's an understatement to say that a single one of these ghouls has more health than an entire dungeon worth of high level enemies. Meanwhile they do around 100HP of damage to my level 24 character with ultra amazing armour; she has just over 500HP. Spamming stimpacks is a tedious must. They're faster than you so running away is no good, and you can't sneak around them even with 100 points. The other new enemies are not nearly as tough; they feel as though they are operating on the same scale as the original enemies, so they represent the same kind of step up as a super mutant master did to a brute etc.

The new content does do a good job of sorting out the abysmal original ending. This is how it should have been. Being able to get to level 30 is very nice. The new perks are mostly complete rubbish.

All in all I can't recommend any of the DLC to the general player. Broken Steel is worth a purchase if the raised level cap is really important to you.

I hope that's truly it for DLC. No more please! I don't know why I keep doing this; I wasn't that fond of the original game in the first place. I guess it is because I keep hoping to find the wow-awesome game so many others did; got to be better than the tunnel dungeon trudge with awful writing and dire plot I played ...

**Zenicetus** · 05-11-2009, 06:03

Note: this is about the PC/Windows Live version of The Pitt and Broken Steel.

I did the Pitt shortly after it came out, and concur with Froggie's review; she really nailed it. I won't say it was a complete waste of time, because I still enjoy running around in the post-apocalypse world as a change of pace from the other games I've been playing recently. The hot and steamy color palette of the Pitt was a nice contrast to the cool blues of Anchorage. Art-wise and environment design-wise I thought it was pretty good, although it did feel very cramped. I thought I'd be wandering around a city similar to the scale of D.C. like the main campaign, but it was more like being confined in a small neighborhood section. I understand the constraints, for a low-cost, minor DLC release like this, but it was still disappointing once I realized how small an area I was going to be moving around in. It conflicts with the big, open-ended feel of the main campaign (more on that below).

One nice thing I enjoyed was more use of the vertical in the environment. You can get up on rooftops in one area, and there are lots of catwalks. At least it was a little different than the corridor crawls.

I didn't have the patience to do the full steel ingot run, I only did the part that advanced the plot. I agree about the "big moral choice" too. That was very badly handled, with not enough information for the player.

Depending on what difficulty and character type you're playing you'll probably want to do the Pitt at somewhere around level 15-17. I did it with my character post-Anchorage at level 20. Other than a few surprises from scripted attacks, it was pretty easy.

Due to the aggravating way Microsoft forces you to buy points in blocks instead of just enough for the current game you want, I had some leftover points after The Pitt. Fallout 3 is the only reason I have that execrable Windows Live thing installed (I don't own an XBox), and since with the leftover points it only cost me $6.25 USD to buy Broken Steel, I did that. At that price I figured it couldn't be too terrible.

I'm about halfway through Broken Steel, trying to stretch it out a little, and my reaction so far is... meh. It's okay, I guess, although like the previous two DLC's I'm still feeling railroaded through the plot. These "mini" DLC's are not a good match for a game like Fallout 3, where the main campaign takes place in a very large environment where you can do a lot of exploration, and pursue dozens of side quests. I love wandering around the wasteland and discovering stuff.

For me, the three DLC's haven't been total failures, because they don't cost that much. On the other hand, they don't deliver that much either. They're just little stabs at expanding the original game world. Frankly, I would rather have paid another $30-$40 for a single "real" Fallout 3 expansion pack that extended the main campaign, with new character levels, and made the explorable world larger, with dozens more quests and not just one major, railroaded plot line that I'm forced to follow. On the other hand, major expansions like that are larger risks for the game developer. I guess it makes economic sense to do it this way, but I'll definitely be more wary of this approach. Ladling out fresh content in little dribs and drabs isn't a substitute for traditional, major expansion packs.

**frogbeastegg** · 05-11-2009, 14:37

I did some digging on various forums. Turns out that the ghoul reavers are broken; if their animation is spasming about they are effectively invulnerable. When they are not spasming they are only a little harder than a Glowing One. The lock ups and other issues I have encountered are being experienced by quite a few others too. I should have waited a bit longer before buying - all of the fuss last week was focused on the broken achievements, with little attention paid to the gameplay issues.

I forgot to mention that I had trouble with The Pit too. A certain speech cut off halfway through, leaving me stuck. I had to reload. Later on another event failed to trigger, once again leaving me trapped with nothing to do except reload. I'm playing the fixed version, and have never downloaded any of the faulty ones so it can't be blamed on residual bad files at my end.

Colour me highly unimpressed. Putting out DLC for a closed environment like a console should be relatively easy to get right on a technical level. Most companies manage it; I can't think of any besides Bethesda which have managed to make such a mess.

Originally Posted by Zenicetus

I love wandering around the wasteland and discovering stuff.

That's the part of Fallout 3 I do like. It's still nice to wander the wastes and find the last few locations I have missed.

The DLC is like a capsule containing everything I dislike about the game, Broken Steel's main plot line being the worst offender of all. Inane dialogue -> tunnel dungeon -> pick up object -> return for more inane dialogue -> tunnel dungeon -> repeat until it's finally over. They even throw in some plot objects which don't make sense. Minor spoilers for the final plot mission:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**Fixiwee** · 05-12-2009, 12:54

Any PC user tried to play a heavy modded Fallout3? I recently installed FOOK, a mod that adds most of the classical F1 and F2 weapons (.223 pistol hehehe) and many other stuff to it. Then there is also Marts Mutant Mod that's supposed to make ghouls more like zombies. They attack in larger groups, are tougher and so on. Also adds Floaters and Geckos to the game.
It all seems to be expand the fun with a better feeling of the old Fallouts, allthough I have only played them for a short time.

**frogbeastegg** · 05-19-2009, 16:21

Originally Posted by frogbeastegg

I hope that's truly it for DLC. No more please!

:sigh: I finally dragged my way through the rest of Broken Steel this afternoon and breathed a big sigh of relief as I deleted the whole lot off my console's hard drive. Guess what? Bethesda instantly announce two more lots of DLC! Gah! Please. Just. Make. It. Stop!

I've finished this game 3 times now! 3! And every single time they release more content so my game ends up returning to unfinished status! 3 times I have deleted the content off my xbox, 3 times I have breathed a sigh of relief that I don't have any reason to ever, ever go back! 130 hours! I have played nearly 130 hours between two characters! I worked hard to get 100% on the commercial game and they keep on taking that away. I don't like the game much even though I am an RPG fanatic, and they keep on giving me a reason to try it yet again just in case it's not as boring as I thought.

Please let me sling the game on my completed pile and never need to touch it again. Please. It's not too much to ask for, is it? Let me keep my completed status and leave me alone. Please?

**johnhughthom** · 05-20-2009, 18:26

That announcement mentions DLC coming for PS3, I was under the impression Microft paid a fortune to make it 360 only a la GTA 4. I guess they only put up for a limited period of exclusivity.

**Centurion1** · 05-21-2009, 22:15

I enjoyed Fallout 3. The DLC's eh i guess i just hate glitchy console games, you know i understand laggy games on my computer, cause computers are all built to different standards. But come on all Xbox 360s are the same how the hell can you make a game that doesnt work on a standardized operating system. If its too much then just tone it down a little.

The original game i loved, even though i sorta missed my character after killing him off cause my D bag of a super mutant companion wouldn't just walk into the damn room. Also about fawkes, uh hes a littleeeeee overpowered. In other words he broke my game. I just sat back and let him do my killin. So i got rid of him and took back my trusty companions, Jericho and my pet doggy. Plus i get to fit out Jericho in BA armor and make him a total BAMF but fawkes cant wear nothing (hint give the super armor you find in that quest to jericho and give him the best weapon you cant reapir. Because he doesnt use up the stuff and at least someone gets some use out of it). Also jericho said way better stuff.

While im ranting about companions i just want to say that they are totally an awesome feature. There isn't anything like having a little backup for a teamwork freak like myself (like seriously i preserve my marines in Halo 3, and if they die i give them a 21 gun salute. Do you have any idea how hard it is to preserve a 4 man squad on legendary in Halo, yeah a little hint here,... its hard)
So overall i give bethesda a thumbs up.
(sorry for my excessive use of parentheses and also my ranting)

**Zenicetus** · 05-22-2009, 07:41

Originally Posted by Centurion1

I enjoyed Fallout 3. The DLC's eh i guess i just hate glitchy console games, you know i understand laggy games on my computer, cause computers are all built to different standards. But come on all Xbox 360s are the same how the hell can you make a game that doesnt work on a standardized operating system. If its too much then just tone it down a little.

The technical problems are frustrating, at this late date in the game's development cycle.

On the PC at least, it seems to be mostly related to the "Windows Live" thing, which has nothing to do with the original game and just complicates things (like having to stay online while you play the DLC content). Frame rates and overall performance are still fine, but ever since the Pitt DLC it makes the game do a hard lockup of the computer on exit, requiring a reboot. It's been a year or two since I've played a game that actually locked up the entire Windows (XP) OS like this and required a cold restart, instead of just a crash to desktop.

On the positive side, I've revised my opinion of Broken Steel a little. The raised level cap does encourage exploration outside the main plot line. I usually don't look at online game forums or Wiki's unless I get stuck on something, but with the raised level cap there was an incentive to keep exploring the game world, and find a few of the unique weapons I had missed. BS beefs up the random encounters with the new higher-level baddies like supermutant Overlords, so it was fun finding these things. When I was capped at level 20, I just didn't have the motivation to finish this game content, and there weren't enough dangerous enemies to make it challenging. So, kudos to the game devs for providing incentive to continue exploring the world they created.

I haven't tried re-playing the game from scratch (and won't), but I suspect that the higher-level enemies added by the BS DLC throughout the Wasteland might reduce that uber-powered feeling you get around level 15 in the original campaign.

I'm still not sure I'll buy either of the two announced DLC's. The alien one is interesting thematically, so I might go for that one. The "horror swamp" one doesn't sound that enticing... just more killing stuff, over and over? I dunno.

The original game i loved, even though i sorta missed my character after killing him off cause my D bag of a super mutant companion wouldn't just walk into the damn room. Also about fawkes, uh hes a littleeeeee overpowered. In other words he broke my game. I just sat back and let him do my killin. So i got rid of him and took back my trusty companions, Jericho and my pet doggy. Plus i get to fit out Jericho in BA armor and make him a total BAMF but fawkes cant wear nothing (hint give the super armor you find in that quest to jericho and give him the best weapon you cant reapir. Because he doesnt use up the stuff and at least someone gets some use out of it). Also jericho said way better stuff.

I play a small arms and energy weapons specialist, going for sneak and sniper skills. I like to scout the terrain before advancing, take out perimeter guards with a sniper rifle, etc. For that style, when I use a companion at all, Charon (contract ghoul) is a good one. He'll go into sneak mode when I do, which keeps him out of trouble most of the time, and he doesn't feel overpowered.

The main problem with companions is the way they'll take off on their own if they spot nearby enemies before you can engage them yourself. It's usually related to pathfinding; especially in complex vertical 3D environments where they're spotting enemies above or below you. So I'll often tell Charon to just wait somewhere while I scout ahead, or when I go into buildings with complex vertical levels. I like the way he grumbles under his breath, and complains about areas not being safe.

**frogbeastegg** · 05-22-2009, 12:11

Originally Posted by Zenicetus

I haven't tried re-playing the game from scratch (and won't), but I suspect that the higher-level enemies added by the BS DLC throughout the Wasteland might reduce that uber-powered feeling you get around level 15 in the original campaign.

Unfortunately not. I'd planned my second character around the 3 DLC episodes, so I had plenty left to do after completing the plot and DLC missions. I found that with the metal blaster and 100 points in energy weapons the overloard and albino radscorpion were going down in 5-8 shots. One's a strictly melee enemy and seldom got to hit me, the other was just another gun user who did more than average damage. Unbugged ghoul reavers I could kill in a single stealth critical or in 2 normal shots.

The enclave troops were the toughest IMO. That new flamethrower is nasty and the ones with hellfire armour take a tonne of shots to drop. I didn't encounter any outside of the Broken Steel plot line.