Half Staff

[TinCow]

I don't usually frequent this forum, but I read an interesting article during my morning commute and I wanted to share it. These quotes summarize the point rather well:

An Army sergeant complained in a rare opinion article that the U.S. flag flew at half-staff last week at the largest U.S. base in Afghanistan for those killed at Virginia Tech but the same honor is not given to fallen U.S. troops here and in Iraq.

"I find it ironic that the flags were flown at half-staff for the young men and women who were killed at VT, yet it is never lowered for the death of a U.S. service member," Wilt wrote.

He noted that Bagram obeyed President Bush's order last week that all U.S. flags at federal locations be flown at half-staff through April 22 to honor 32 people killed at Virginia Tech by a 23-year-old student gunman who then killed himself.

"I think it is sad that we do not raise the bases' flag to half-staff when a member of our own task force dies," Wilt said.

Article

He isn't suggesting that the flags be at half staff all over the country, but at least at the soldiers' home bases and possibly in their home states. I've got to agree with this. I think the loss of soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan is just as worthy of national mourning as the VT victims. How can we justify giving that honor to the latter group, but not the former?

[Major Robert Dump]

nobody cares about the soldiers. go about business as usual, little consumer monkies, there's nothing to see here.

[Warmaster Horus]

We can't, simply put.
VT was a horrible tragedy and it's more or less finished. The war is still not finished though. Perhaps when the West (mainly the USA, of course) has stopped involving themselves in the Middle East, the soldiers will finally be honored.

[doc_bean]

nobody cares about the soldiers.

This pretty much sums it up.

[Vladimir]

We can't, simply put.
VT was a horrible tragedy and it's more or less finished. The war is still not finished though. Perhaps when the West (mainly the USA, of course) has stopped involving themselves in the Middle East, the soldiers will finally be honored.

I'll make a deal with you. France leaves Africa and we'll leave the Middle East.

[Odin]

I'll make a deal with you. France leaves Africa and we'll leave the Middle East.

[Warmaster Horus]

Africa actually needs our help, the various civil wars and under-develpped countries prove it.

[Tribesman]

Maybe Kentucky does it different
http://governor.ky.gov/newsroom/pres...70409flags.htm

[Tachikaze]

It's because human life has different value to the public, depending on who you are and how you die.

100 people die in US auto accidents every day, but because the news hasn't sensationalized them, they don't get honored. Their deaths are not any less tragic.

We don't honor the soldiers killed in Iraq because Bush doesn't want us to be reminded about them. That's why he is distracting us with half-masts and his announcment that he would avoid making humorous statements at the White House Correspondent's Dinner in the wake of the Virginia Tech shooting.

The massive amounts of Iraqi dead, far higher than the Virginia Tech students and US soldiers combined, are not honored because they are not Americans. Their lives are thus not seen as being as important as US lives, even though they are supposedly the reason the US army is in Iraq.

This was also true in the space shuttle crashes. Seven died on the Callenger, seven who knew the risks they were taking when they entered the craft. Probably the same day, seven people died in a bus crash, but they weren't honored.

If you are an American civilian and die in a sensational, violent way, you get honored. Otherwise, no one pays attention.

[Crazed Rabbit]

I'm going to partly agree with Tachi (!) - but I think the fact is that our country is so huge that many bad things happen every day, and so news outlets must pick which to highlight. I'm not of the mind that it's some huge conspiracy.

Local news will write about local soldiers who died, and local accidents, murders, and the like. But national news will focus only on the sensational because otherwise it'd be a list of similar tragedies.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm just pointing it out.

Even more peculiarly, I find myself agreeing with Tribesman.

CR

[Xiahou]

I'm going to partly agree with Tachi (!) - but I think the fact is that our country is so huge that many bad things happen every day, and so news outlets must pick which to highlight. I'm not of the mind that it's some huge conspiracy.

Local news will write about local soldiers who died, and local accidents, murders, and the like. But national news will focus only on the sensational because otherwise it'd be a list of similar tragedies.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm just pointing it out.

Even more peculiarly, I find myself agreeing with Tribesman.

CR

That's part of it, I think- but there's more to it. When 100 people die in car accidents, it's tragic and unexpected, but all 100 that die don't come from the same community. Similarly, in war, the deaths tend to not hit any one community so hard as the VT shooting did. Also, unfortunately, in war people do die- at least it's not so shocking as 32 college kids being gunned down at their classes.

He isn't suggesting that the flags be at half staff all over the country, but at least at the soldiers' home bases and possibly in their home states.

I don't think that's the way it works. If it's national mourning, all flags everywhere must be lowered.

[Tachikaze]

That's part of it, I think- but there's more to it. When 100 people die in car accidents, it's tragic and unexpected, but all 100 that die don't come from the same community. Similarly, in war, the deaths tend to not hit any one community so hard as the VT shooting did. Also, unfortunately, in war people do die- at least it's not so shocking as 32 college kids being gunned down at their classes.

I don't think that's the way it works. If it's national mourning, all flags everywhere must be lowered.

Your point is valid. In accordance with that, maybe what the media and public should do is focus on the suffering of the affected community, not the lives of the victims. The victims of shootings should not be given special honors over other people who have died.

[Papewaio]

Its more simple then any of these, its simply our ability to adapt to the environment.

I'm sure there was an outcry the first time someone died in an automobile accident. Then after many more accidents it became common place, people adjusted to it. The next big outcry would have to be more deaths in a spectacular way, the first multi-car pile up or bus load.

It's a bit like the Olympics in which we don't tend to remember the silvers and going to the moon were we can't name anyone who flew on Apollo 12.

Once something becomes common enough it drops into the background and we only notice the spikes in the environment.

The flip side of this is when you own a particular model of car you will recognize the same model on the road far more often then when you did not. When a tragedy has impinged on your lifestyle you will notice it far more often then others who have not been directly effected. I'm sure there are psychological phrases and definitions for both of these.

Essentially the human condition is to ignore the commonplace and take special attention to our circle of care.

[Lord Winter]

Here in Oregon the governers been fairly good about ordering the flag to half staff at each Oregon's soliders death. Even going as far to attend the funerals of the fallen. It would be nice if it was more commen.

[AntiochusIII]

It would be nice if it was more commen.

The gesture is nice and all, 'cept it doesn't pay the bills.

I am of the opinion that mourning over the dead gives one nothing but perhaps a sense of satisfaction and solace. It's better to take care of the ones that are left behind, be it family, injured troops, or the ones still on the field -- all of which are shown to be quite unfortunately neglected by the Glorious Nation. But of course.

The publicity of the VTech tragedy and the overwhelming response I think has more to do with its suddenness and how it hits very close to home, as in College Campuses Near You, than anything else.

[KafirChobee]

It may very well be impractical for each state to fly their capitals' flags at half-mast every time they lost one of their sons or daughters. Face it some would be doing it on a weekly basis - may as well leave it there 'til the occupation ends.

However, there are more obvious and respective ways to honor both those that gave their all - and those that stand on the wall to defend our nation. A simple moment of silence at the start of a schools day, or before a sporting event. Possibly even before the work day begins at all the MIC factories.

At all US Forts (stations in general) there are 2 stages a day that honor those that have served and those that are, and a final one that honors the fallen:
1) Raising of the flag (gah! escapes me what the ceremony is called - Red?), where by once the music begins all outside face the base flag and salute it.
2) Retreat - the lowering of the flag, same respect shown (if you're driving - stop, get out and salute).
3) Taps.

Still, don't most H.S.s' honor their fallen alumni? The Military acadamies do - don't they? Just don't photograph a flag draped coffin .... it makes the Bushies sad - because it is against their spin.