Forlorn Hope: Palestine Suicide Squad?

[Gaius Terentius Varro]

I was surprised that they didn't get 2HP in the patch so I am wondering if it is intended: a last resort luxury item for big cities beefing up against incoming foe and not meant to be part of regular armies.

[Bob the Insane]

Like the Life of Brian reference...

I think you are right, but I often used them as part of the standing army when I played as the HRE. They are just too much fun...

Besides I have never been a fan of the 2hp supermen... If you want elite troops give then high defense and attack stats, good morale and good armour if appropriate...

[Omisan]

I prefer Zwei Handers to Forlorn Hope.

They look great.

[Gaius Terentius Varro]

Yes, but you need a castle for those.

[pike master]

its odd but i put them up against sherwood foresters who have 2 hit points and they almost beat them.

[Shahed]

I love those 2HP units, they are FUN !

Sherwoods almost got beat by FH ? Skirmish off I suppose ?

[edyzmedieval]

Those guys are really a Palestine Suicide Squad. Horribly overpowered.

By the way, who are they actually? I never heard of them.

[pike master]

I love those 2HP units, they are FUN !

Sherwoods almost got beat by FH ? Skirmish off I suppose ?

i used the sherwood foresters and went head to head against the forlorn hope. it was very close until the end. hard to understand since the sherwood foresters have two hit points while the forlorns only have 1.

does anyone know if they added 2 hit points to the forlorn hope in 1.2?

[Shahed]

Just had a look at Yas's stat table: http://www.totalwar.co.kr/

and... even before that I was pretty sure their stats are inferior. No armor, less defence skill, less attack, but if you put skirmish on and let them shoot, SA will win. They will outrun and shoot, rince and repeat = 30 dead FH.

Folorn Hope link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forlorn_hope

[pike master]

yeh i know that but i was wanting to see how they would fair in melee. sherwoods have excellent melee stats thats why i had a fair bet they would win. but the forlorn hopes almost beating them surprised me.

[Gaius Terentius Varro]

Yes those Spartans are really tough....

[Shahed]

Yeh ! This is SHHHHH....PPPPAAAA....TAAAAAAAAHH !

Don't you love the way that guy used to almost spit every time he talked. Made him really "warrior" like... NOT !

[Furious Mental]

Even without two hit points Forlorn Hope seem to chop through pretty much everything. I find they are especially good on walls where the narrow space negates the tiny frontage they provide in a field battle. With two hit points they would be way overpowered in my opinion.

[pike master]

Even without two hit points Forlorn Hope seem to chop through pretty much everything. I find they are especially good on walls where the narrow space negates the tiny frontage they provide in a field battle. With two hit points they would be way overpowered in my opinion.

which is the idea

[Shahed]

What do you guys do on the walls ? I'm not much of a siege expert. Is it better to let the enemies hop onto the wall give them some space to group and then hit em, or just block them from the start ?

[Philbert]

Well, with ladders you definitely want to be right there so that the attacker is alone and doesn't stand a chance. With siege towers I don't really know.

But I am almost never defending in a siege, I always sally. Probably mostly because in RTW the AI was stupid in sieging and just walked right into my archer fire (in M2TW they are a lot cleverer about that), but also because I think it is a waste of my city's production and troop training time. What's more, being in a siege causes a lot of unrest, which can actually reduce the garrison inside, something I don't need.

[Furious Mental]

My experience is that with siege towers it is also good to stop them as soon as possible. This is because once the initial rush of troops is over they will come onto the walls at a much slower rate. As long as a big blob of them hasn't built up on the walls it seems to be easy for the defenders to deal with the trickle of attackers because as soon as one hops down onto the wall five defenders stick a sword in them. On the other hand if you let them develop into a big blob your towers will kill alot more of them. I generally try to stop them getting any foothold though.

[knoddy]

my experience in defending my cities is that, if the enemy has towers rams and ladders i defend the walls and the gate. if the enemey has other siege equipment to destroy my walls i defend in teh streets generally in my town square so that i dont lose lots of men onthe walls when they knock them down.

however dependin on my units i also sally forth quite often lol. only if im outgunned will i let them start an assault because i can usually get the upper hand if im defending when my troops aint as good or are outnumbered.

Cheers Knoddy

[pike master]

maybe this is why forlorn hope are so tough!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFAKTjOQJwQ&NR=1

[Shahed]

Good video... and thanks for the siege tips everyone.

[Tamur]

The ending bit of that video made me slightly queasy... imagine wearing full plate and having one of those stuck in your ribs.

[Shahed]

On a realism level I don't think the video is useful. This is not a demo of how effective the weapon would be against any armor. It just shows impact on simulated density types. Effective nonetheless.

[Furious Mental]

Well whether or not someone affirmatively demonstrates it with a laboratory experiment, I'm going to assume that whacking someone with an enormous sword will hurt.

[Shahed]

Look, tell you what... you put on a full gothic armor and can we try it on you ?

[pike master]

yup!

also i think forlorn hope has more of a chance to heal after a battle.

and there is something to them. i think it is maybe faster animation speed. also they are near impossible to rout. this has something to do with their psych factor of loosing awareness to the enviroment around them.

i dont know exactly how that works but it is very low on the unit stats.

[Xehh II]

In the discription doesn't it say the Forlorn Hope are prisnors and stuff like that. Why would they be good enough to have 2HP.

[Shahed]

I think that the idea most people have is that, like other 2HP units, they should have them as well. They do just fine in my experience anyway, but I'd love em with 2HP. More carnage !

[pike master]

yup! two hit points are needed for them. a must have 8)

[Gaius Terentius Varro]

He is deffo Forlorn Hope 2 HP material

[Shahed]

Gets his head chopped off too IIRC. Those 300, they are 3458920 HP units. Invincible.