ADVICE: Give option to reduce command sight

[MotorskillsSan]

At the moment In STW/MI, you can push up a unit on each flank and get a grand bird's-eye view of the whole battlefield by double-clicking between them.

This is clearly something that was not available to a medieval general. Indeed an aerial view is a bit dodgy in any event.

I would love to see the command viewpoint reduce with each difficulty level, down to simply what the general could actually see at Expert level.

This would also give an interesting alternative to handicapping battles between players of different skill/experience.

Comments welcomed.

[theforce]

Hmmm that is a bad idea mate since the gen is placed back to protect him could see nothing of the action. Also famous gens like Alexander the Great and other good gens devided their armies into pieces. e.g cav in Alexander's army was commanded by his mate. Other regiments were commant by other peeps. Offcourse Alexander commanded the main army but complex battle plans require flexibility and if something goes wrong it would be impossible for him to correct it. His co-gens if you want to name em like that were taking decisions out there that made the army more flexible and more powerful. Also each unit in STW or MI has it's leader. A general was impossible to order his men while they were fighting. Just see movies like Braveheard and Gladiator. Although not realistic battles it gives you an idea of what the action was like. Generlas would simpy give commands at that time of where the unit was going to go and where to engage.

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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
http://lod.nipogames.com/default.html

[evilc]

just think about controlling anything if you can see 'realisticly'. i wouldn't play MTW if they did that, as tactics would be restricted, especially as you wouldn't be sure of where your own men where.

[MotorskillsSan]

I agree, mostly. But that is where multiplayer can come into its own, with other players acting as sub-generals.

And generals didn't hang about at the back for a laugh - they did it so they could co-ordinate the battle, as best they could.

Failing that, they piled in - like Alexander!


At the very least I would like to reduce the potential for seeing stuff in "impossible" places, as per my example of the two flanking units.

[This message has been edited by MotorskillsSan (edited 01-21-2002).]

[Toda Nebuchadnezzar]

Ok Ok lets get this straight. So you want to make it even harder for the general who is usually at the back so as not to loose him and make your whole army run away have even less visability. So ur at the back watching the line hold, then u see a gap on their side. You quickly send in one unit and find out that you have clicked all the way to the other side of the board by mistake because of the angle of view. Nah sorry don't agree. MP is hard enough with my skills (and connection,and crap computer..)So don't make it even more comlex!

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Grand Master of
The Knights Templar
"non nobis Domine non nobis sed Nomine tuo da gloriam"

[MagyarKhans Cham]

the problem is as well, that if u ,move a CAVunit behind a hill or woods and they get attacked by spears that unit will stand and got slaughtered without any subchiefs initiative to move.

your idea is one i got 2 years ago befor ethe game got out but it just cant work in a 1 vs 1 or u must give each unit a control by a player.

[KukriKhan]

I agree that manuvering is tough enough in STW & MI for me .

BUT

Motorskills has a point, and a decent suggestion. It's about camera angle and gamer Point-of-view (POV), and level playing fields.

Our current POV is a virtual 30-feet up and directly behind the lead-most unit - implying that lead units can communicate what they see instantaneously back to their leader, however far back his is in formation. Changing that would change the RTS paradigm; so probably ain't happening.

But I can certainly see restricting the camera angle and POV incrementally through the difficulty levels, to the point where an Expert would command his units almost solely through the unit icons and right-click menus, to simulate what AtheGreat might have faced as a general, planning and coordinating a battle - having to trust his plan and his lieutenants to do as ordered (or improvise, as required).

Finally, such a scheme would require a reliable battle recorder, so the "expert" could see the fruition of his plan, after the fact.

Think of it as progressively, voluntarily, moving thru stages of self-restriction, until an expert could truthfully declare: 'I am Tokugawa - with the help of my ancestors, I shall prevail blindfolded, with both arms tied behind my back'.

Maybe then players high on the honor ladder wouldn't mind playing rank newbies to prove themselves. Or not. Why would a champ risk a loss to a newbie contender?

Aw crap...I think I just talked myself out of it. No programmer is gonna volunteer to code the algorithms for progressive handicaps, and no expert is gonna voluntarily bind himself.

Great idea Motorskills - but can't work today.

[Cheetah]

The big difference between the game and real life that in real life every great commander had capable sub-commaders who took the initative when necessary. here, as magys cham noted you cannot even trust the "AI sub-commader" to handle a single CA unit. that is, the intelligence and flexibility of the "AI sub-commaders" is so low that it would be a sure suicide to trust them to carry out any pre-planned battle. for this reason this is a dead idea, though personally i like it

[evilc]

it can't work. Also, if you where to asign human unit leaders, they would all get bored commanding a single unit and fall alseep. And i also doubt that developers are going to reduce the appeal of a game by making it so hard you can't see your own units.

[Toda Nebuchadnezzar]

But the posibilities if it did work ar unbelievable. This pretty muh ties in with Kraellin's want that in one battle eah of the 32 unis (16 per side) would be controlled by a different human player. This would be a great battle! But todays connection capabilities are severly lacking and so this option is only possible with 32 broadband comps. and a game being able to host 32 players! But then it would be good.

I think some clans do things like this, they have 4v4 low koku and each guy takes 1 or 2 units into the battle.

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Grand Master of
The Knights Templar
"non nobis Domine non nobis sed Nomine tuo da gloriam"

[Erado San]

If true line of sight is implemented they'd better make it optional, otherwise you would lose a lot of SP battles because you can't find that one single unit hiding in those bushes behind that hill.

[High Voltage]

What if a game used a monitor for your troops at the bottom of the screen, sort of like a mini-map, but for your troops only. For example, if you had a straight line formation for your whole army, the display would show rectangles representing units of men, similar to the instant replays in Gettysburg.

This would come in handy so instead of look around the screen to see how your army is doing, this little display would show the status of each unit of men, and have the troops controllable by clicking and dragging on the rectangles.

Or maybe have a zoomable mini-map which shows a bird's eye view of the field, while only showing enemy units if you see them in the normal view.

[MotorskillsSan]

Another option might be for the camera to take longer to get to units that are further away from the general, and/or from each other, especially if they are out of the line of sight.

[NinjaKilla]

Gotta remember this is a game. Historical accuracy and realism mustn't get in the way of playablity!


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Clan Kenchikuka

[MotorskillsSan]

I don't see you complaining about heavy fog....