Spies die like flies

[Von Nanega]

With the Unofficial 1.2. My spies die like flies. Any time. Any where. Cant spy on cities. Cant spy on armies. Oh well. Maybe just the longest run of bad spying luck ever.

[Gaius Terentius Varro]

Nnope but it sure makes the thieves guild usefull/mandatory instead of useless now

[Aaron A Aardvark]

I don't have the patch but I'll be pleased if that have downgraded spies, I almost never failed to infiltrate a settlement before a siege.

They should be like assassins, it takes a bit of time and effort to get them trained up.

[Von Nanega]

I feel downgraded spies is a good thing. Keeps the spy spam down man! I agree now that one has to uptech a city just for the spies now.

[Foz]

I Agree, it's much better with spies taking a bit of work to use effectively: they were far too easy to use before. At least now their proliferation is somewhat checked, and the choice between spies vs. siege equipment for assault purposes is a much more interesting one to make (spies were hands down best choice prior to 1.2).

In other news, it looks to me like some interesting things are affecting the spies' odds now. For one, it seems the spies can spy more successfully on people/places that they have observed for a turn. I noticed that Scottish towns had 50% success rate for my starting English spy, but when he got there and spent a turn or so with the town revealed before moving in, the rate was then 62%. I've been unable to tell if there is a greater effect for longer study time, but the brief one seems to be repeatable. Similarly, armies/agents that remain in view for more than 1 turn seem to become easier spying targets. Again I've only seen them get easier by one level, but that could be for lack of anything sticking around long enough for it to happen a second time. I did notice a stalled Scottish heir w/ stack of troops that all spies had 95% success rate on, presumably because his location had been known for so long: he eventually moved back beside the Scottish capital, at which point he immediately had a much lower success chance to all my spies. Targets also seem to be a little easier when they are on your territory, and rebels seem to be easier targets usually than units/agents belonging to factions.

That's about the sum total of my observations about spies at the moment. I'm not certain whether or not it must be the spy that sees the target to make it easier... but I'm actually thinking that as long as it's being revealed somehow, the spying chance will go up accordingly. I'm also uncertain if my observations indicate a big overhaul of the spy system or not: it may be that it was just impossible to notice the system working before because the success rate was always so high. Either way the 1.2 state of affairs is IMO much improved in this regard.

[Lochar]

Hmm I would love for 50% chance, my starting spies have 45% to check most people and 35% for cities.

They can be useful tho as you dont need them IN the city to spy its forces, and I tend to agree that they made infiltration too easy before, not to mention stuffing spies into cities was a good way to get a riot going.

I guess I relied on them too much before because it's actually challenging taking over rebel strongholds now. Heh they burned 2 of my rams and 1 siege tower, so I basically had to fight to the gatehouse.

[alex9337]

The spy "nerfing" that seems to have happened with 1.2 is marvellous. Prior, they were a no brainer, now you have to think about it. As someone mentioned earlier, it certainly makes the acquisition of an upgraded Thieves guild extremely important. Before 1.2, this guild was completely unnecessary.

I have already found that my unguilded spies come out with only 1 star and a 35 to 45% chance of success. Gotta gamble, get them trained up to get them into enemy cities. If they die, it cost you the florins to train a new one.

Beautiful!