Re: Calvary, ect, ect
Do better trained troops keep better cohesion? I was under the impression it was just a game mechanic, not something that some cavalry were better at than others.
Personally I prefer the way charges work now. Get it right and no infantry will stand in your way, but get it wrong and you'll be chopped down... that's the gamble. And single click seems much more reliable for a formed charge in my opinion.
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A man may fight for many things. His country, his friends, his principles, the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd mud-wrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock and a sack of French porn. - Blackadder
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Re: Calvary, ect, ect
the best method is to have a good distance from cav to target. single click and allow the cav unit to square off its facing towards target. then hit the run button. as long as you have them beyond a certian minimum distance they will close on target and launch a devestating overpowered charge.
sometimes quick angling charges at close quarters work but it takes some fiddling to know when they will work. its very difficult to explain.
Re: Calvary, ect, ect
Maybe its my imagination about the better trained units charging better =)Originally Posted by Slug For A Butt
And yes, I agree - single click charges with no obstructions are 99% more reliable in nearly all circumstances.
Re: Calvary, ect, ect
Having played a long 1.1 French campaign (Hmmmm.....Cavalryyyy...), I've succeeded in making a whole lot of double-click charges, decimating whole units....
Placement at the start is also very important, I always try to gain the upper ground before the charge to gain more impetus and then it's goodbye infantry
My main problem with the single-click charge is that the target will almost always move or the cav unit suffer from enemy missile fire before reaching the targeted unit...whereas the double-click charge lets you reach the target earlier...
Philippe 1er de Francein King of the Franks
Re: Calvary, ect, ect
IMO, it's all about luck. If a single stone comes up in your way
(why do stones walk around battlefields anyway...
) you're screwed. I tried a lot of times to make these consistent charges, but something always went wrong. And one time, when I tried to help one of my kings to achieve glorious death on the field of battle
(he was quite loaded with bad traits) I sent him and his men (25 or so) against a larger rebel stack with 3 crossbows, 3 armored spears and a mailed knight squad. The rebels deployed the spears in front, crossbows middle and the knights behind. I decided to charge in at the knights, with a double click. As my troops ran towards them, the enemy crossbows and the knights started to move. When I reached the front line, the crossbows were right behind the bracing spearmen, with the knights marching right behind them. I waited my knights to be massacred on the spears, and what happens? They blew the horn and cut through them like hot knife in butter... The initial charge completely destroyed the middle spear stack, half of the other two, routed the crossbows and killed the enemy captain along with 80% of his mailed knights, bodies flying everywhere... with about 5 own loss
So, I don' think the one-click charge should be only used if the enemy is close enough and doesn't have any ranged troops. If it has, it's better to run in, and massacre them... And after this victory I started to use this tactic. I attack the squad behind. And the charge affects the other squad in front, too. This way, the 10% only comes in the picture when the behind stack is reached - as I observed.
Sorry for the long post.
"Cum Deo pro patria et libertate" - "With God for mother country and freedom" - Ferenc Rákóczy II.
Re: Calvary, ect, ect
The single click charge is pretty worthless; the target has usually moved somewhere else by the time these silly k-nigh-ets have sauntered into range, causing the k-nigh-ets to become all flustered and soil themselves in frustration.
Re: Calvary, ect, ect
The charges work quite well now I think, except that you need a lot of luck to pull off a good charge even if your troops are perfectly aligned... At least it seems so now. I don't really like the fact that charging-pulling back-charging routine requires 4-5 steps to work, though, as I prefer to focus on the tactical aspect instead of whack-a-molesque unit juggling skills. One step forward with the command system, and two steps back, I'd say.
How about charging units in loose formation and running away from your charge? Are they still as silly in 1.2 as even in 1.1? I for one hate the idea of losing half my mailed knights to a unit of peasant archers, who turn their tail and run away in a loose formation until my "charge" hits, after which they just take their fruit knives and cut the poor hoarsemen to ribbons... Just asking, there are enough critical threads on this subject so I won't complain any more...
Re: Calvary, ect, ect
That was a real pain in RTW (especially the realism mods where cavalry was more vulnerable). I think it is better in 1.2, not least because correcting the shield bug makes most knights significantly more robust. They can take on archers etc without much loss, even without the benefit of a good charge. Good charges were supposed to be easier in 1.2 in such situations, but I am not sure the problem is fully solved - cavalry can still switch from "charging" to "pursuing" and lose their charge impact.
Re: Calvary, ect, ect
With Moorish Jav Cav, I've noticed that when I do need to charge I'm best off if I double click (or select a set up location and run to it) and then single click while my cav is still running. I've seen 40 of my base jav throwers charge a full unit of mailed knights and win with only about 10 losses doing this. This is with no experience for my cav.
The entire charge system seems to have some oddities to it. I wish there was a "Run here, form up and charge" command, as has been posted. It would be much more historic (from the commanders perspective) as most cav troops practice that manuver.
Re: Calvary, ect, ect
Yeah, I've had the same with the Polish Nobles, who never seized to surprise me with their effectiveness. They've managed some pretty strong charges from very awkward positions, wiping out full units.
Cavalry charging cavalry doesn't seem to have much impact, though, which is a bit strange. But then again, it gives the AI (and players in pvp) a chance to counter enemy cavalry who would otherwise just flank and wipe out the enemy army completely without any problems (maybe sacrificing one knight unit to overpower the enemy cavalry in local slugoffs etc.).
Anyway, the cavalry facing each other seems to be forced to melee (except for bow and javelin cavalry), and that can take a while if one or both sides don't have mace cavalry, enough for a decisive maneuvre by infantry, melee or gunpowder.
I really enjoyed sending the Venetian "light" mace cavalry, whatever its name was, against enemy knights and the like. I think they're something like 50/50 against most knights, and enemy AP doesn't really matter too much, as they're quite light anyway.
Re: Calvary, ect, ect
Youcan "sort of" execute this type of manuever by command queing a "run to position command" and then shift-single-clicking an enemy unit. This gives the run order to the first waypoint and the second is a single-click charge. The only downside is you may not be fully cohesive resulting in an unformed charge. Using several walk waypoints to close the last 50 yards or so before charge distance helps some.
This is how I do cav charges under missile fire to minimize losses on the approach.
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