Hoplites have been put at an unfair disadvantage because they can't form a phalanx...

[Intranetusa]

^ if a metal arrowhead struck the wooden pike, wooden that splinter or shatter the pike? Pikes being able to stop/entagle arrows would also mean pikes getting damaged/destroyed

[antisocialmunky]

^ if a metal arrowhead struck the wooden pike, wooden that splinter or shatter the pike? Pikes being able to stop/entagle arrows would also mean pikes getting damaged/destroyed

The fun thing about wood is its ability bend/twist/absorb and diffuse force unlike stone. If an arrow hit a pike, the pike would bend and maybe the arrow would get lodged but it wouldn't snap. I would think that things used to stop horsemen and resist annoying little men trying to hack the tips off could survive a arrow.

[Watchman]

The fun thing about wood is its ability bend/twist/absorb and diffuse force unlike stone. If an arrow hit a pike, the pike would bend and maybe the arrow would get lodged but it wouldn't snap. I would think that things used to stop horsemen and resist annoying little men trying to hack the tips off could survive a arrow.

Plus the pike-shafts are thin, round, and at most inconvenient angles for achieving the kind of square hit that would allow most projectiles to do much beyond bounce off and leave a scrape. And a projectile trying to play flipper ball amongst serried ranks of pikes is pretty obviously going to run out of energy but fast, and certainly won't be the most dangerous object around for the pikemen.

As for Lechaeum, wasn't that during the period when hoplite armour was pretty much restricted to helmets for improved tactical mobility ? I've gotten the impression body armour for the heavy infantry only again became common some decades later, probably because the hoplites had started feeling really vulnerable to all these darn skirmishers, slingers and archers now running all around the place...

[mAIOR]

Actually I believe it was in the Tracian wars they ditched the armor so they could catch those darn peltast slingers and whatnot. But as the time flew by, they realised that in heavy infantry combat (like against persians and such) it was their armor that gave them so much staying power against other weapons (thermopilae) so they readopted it leaving only some squadrons lightly armored to serve as fast infantry.


Cheers...

[Watchman]

I wonder about that. I seem to recall reading the first ones to drop armour on a large scale were the Spartans (who AFAIK didn't have too much contact with the Itchy Dwar- pesky Thracians), in the interests of tactical nimbleness of formation, a couple of decades before the Peloponnesian War broke out - and the hoplites still mainly fought each other in that one too, what now the cavalry and light infantry arms were making themselves increasingly (and, particularly in the case of the horsies, often bloodily) felt. So I rather doubt if they regarded the armour as such a primary consideration for heavy-infantry clashes all things considered.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Well armour was being dropped from the eighth century onwards. Vambraces and thigh,/bicep protection was pretty much gone by the Persian Wars and by the start of the Peloponesian Wars Linthorax had mostly replaced bronze. As always this had a lot to do with cost, and lowering the requirements so you could have more Hoplites.

Armour really reached a low ebb during the Peloponesian War though, the Spartans basically got down to a wool cap. The Peloponesian War basically bankrupted everyone and losing armour is a good way to reduce the cost of your soldiers.

There's also the problem that if you get killed someone tends to take grandad's armour off your corpse.

[Xehh II]

Linthorax had mostly replaced bronze.

What is Linthorax?

[mAIOR]

I have to recheck my sources on that. But, it's geting late and I need to sleep as tomorow I've got to study hard so probably after monday I can give you some input.


Cheers...

[Watchman]

Well, whatever the specific motivation the relevant practical side effect is pretty obvious - Arrows Hurt.

[Sheep]

^ if a metal arrowhead struck the wooden pike, wooden that splinter or shatter the pike? Pikes being able to stop/entagle arrows would also mean pikes getting damaged/destroyed

If a pike shaft broke just from an arrow hitting it, how would it be expected to stand up to the force of sticking into a charging horse??