Peek-a-boo (Or you can hide? So what!)

[Moah]

Quick query:

What is the point of hide anywhere? Has anyone used these units effectively, and how?

I've got my hashishim and thought I'd try them out...

I put them in front of Janissary in case the crouchnig meant I could shoot over their heads. I can't.

I put them in from of my lines so they could surprise the enemy before it charged: But they get seen, then attacked.

I put them on the flanks to circle round and attack. They did, but again were seen before they charged so I could have done the same with any infantry unit.

I circled round the rear of the enemy to target the general. But they get seen when they move and get slaughtered.

What am I doing wrong? The hide function must be good for something.

[HoreTore]

Well, there are situations where you'd want to ambush your enemy, and when you don't have a wood available, hashashim can do it.

Set up your line somewhere, then set up your hashashim a little in front and to one side. Quite far away, actually. I'd say about 4-5 unit lengths away from your army. Then, when the enemy has charged your line, you charge the hashashim into their backs.

[Moah]

Well, there are situations where you'd want to ambush your enemy, and when you don't have a wood available, hashashim can do it.

Set up your line somewhere, then set up your hashashim a little in front and to one side. Quite far away, actually. I'd say about 4-5 unit lengths away from your army. Then, when the enemy has charged your line, you charge the hashashim into their backs.

True, and I've done that. But Cavalry work better (especially Sipahi so you can use them as archers if desired) - just ride out to the rear then charge - so why use Hash?


I suppose they won't have a unit peel off to deal with you, but they will if they a) pass by you or b) you have to move to attack their rear (get seen, get countered)

[HoreTore]

Cavalry basically does the same thing, yes... But hashashim are far better fighters than cavalry. They can even take on bodyguards and win.

[Bob the Insane]

I often used the tactic with trees and if the terrain allows for it, it simply allows you to get your flanking attacks in a bit quicker...

I never tried with hidden infantry units in the open, I was not sure they could move quick enough to make it viable give the distance at which you need to place them to avoid the enemy stumbling into them...

[TevashSzat]

Hiding cheap units within trees can be quite effective. Lets say your main infantry line is fighting the enemy's infantry force and they are sending their cavalry to flank you, but you have cheapt reserves hiding. They are charging with their cav and think they have an easy win but all of the suddent they are on top of your hidden infantry and their charge is broken allowing to either destroy their cav with your cav or buy time as the enemy cav is forced to either run away and recharge or destroy the unit it is engaging

[Chaos Cornelius lucius]

I have seen the line "surprised by hidden units",(or something similar) on attacking enemy infantry when they got in range of my hidden units. So I think there will be some sort of morale penalty involved which you could take advantage of if you are quick enough.

[hoom]

It used to be that units suddenly appearing gave a significant morale shock to the enemy.

I remember a battle in Shogun where all but my general were hidden & then when the enemy got close enough, almost my entire army appeared at the same time causing a chain route without even having any combat.

On other occasions I had the reverse, with my own guys getting routed by sudden appearance of the enemy.

While not routing them, I had a vastly outnumbered defender fight off the Mongol horde in MTW with the aid of morale hit from suddenly appearing army.

Haven't noticed much effect in Rome though (albeit, I play mods RTR & EB which increase morale significantly).

[Shahed]

Agreed, Shogun had the best ambush effect IMO. It was SOOO worth the hassle.

As far as HashashiN are concerned, they're another one of those coolets units in the game, right up there with Sherwood Archers. But like Sherwoods they have to used with care, but when used effectively... devastating and absolutely so much FUN.

[Czar Alexsandr]

One time, long ago, in the virtual land of England there was a General named Rodger of Leeds. This general would have wet himself at the notion he should be in command at all but one day rebel's were standing outside his castle of Nottingham and were calling him naughty words. So the genral rallied his army and got ready to engage the professional army parked outside.

Lol. Well Rodger's bodyguard was my only cavalry unit I had besides a unit of hobilers coming as reinforcements. Well my two spear milita, one town militia, and one peaseant were deployed in a line in the thick woods outside Nottingham. One spear milita unit was in schiltron while every other unit hid in the woods on my flanks. I waited for my hobilers to find a good hiding place behind the general and then the rebels attacked. His army consisted of two units of Levy spearmen, Armoured swordsmen, Dismounted English Knights, and the general's unit English Knights!

Well Rodger and the peasents engaged the swordmen routing them very fast. The combined ambush+general's cav charge. The enemy DEK and spears attack the unit in schiltron onlly to be abushed by my other spears. With the general and the peaseants free I have them move in and destroy the enemy army. The rest of the battle is just trying to catch the enemy general before he runs off the map!

My first heroic victory. I'll remember it for a while. With what I had I didn't think I could possibly win, esspesialy since this was my first campaign. Well.. Rodger of Leeds became my favorite after this battle!

[Shahed]

HAHA ! Good account !

[Ciaran]

Agreed, Shogun had the best ambush effect IMO. It was SOOO worth the hassle.

As far as HashashiN are concerned, they're another one of those coolets units in the game, right up there with Sherwood Archers. But like Sherwoods they have to used with care, but when used effectively... devastating and absolutely so much FUN.

I´m not sure about the Hashashin, but I believe Sherwood Archers have armour-piercing longbows, which makes them the unit of choice to snipe the enemy general.

[Czar Alexsandr]

Thank's Sinan! I take pride in my storytelling abilities. Of course it's not just a story it did happen..

Well I'm not sure if Hashashim have a AP bonus but they are good fighters. With 2 hitpoints to. Good sword unit for muslim factions that can hide anywheres as a bonus. I believe the Hungarian Battle assassasins work exactally the same... in principle. There are differences between Hashasimi and Hungarians.