Gaesatae defeated!

[Sygrod]

I really dislike these naked guys, running around naked and all. I am still playing Kart Hadast, it is 193 BC and I have been dealing with Aedui Gaesatae for years. There is no end to them. They are a most annoying adversary.

Well, the other night, I had my revenge. There was an armed camp southeast of Tolosa, commanded by two generals, and roughly half and half Gaesatae and other infantry units. I moved my army up and laid siege. My army was not really up to the task. I only had 3 heavy infantry units: 1 African elite phalanx unit and 2 heavy libyan spearmen (which are quite good). 5 units of balearic slingers (why not?) and 5 units of iberian skirmishers, which are my favourite unit. I also had one heavy and one light iberian cavalry unit plus some elephants. I set up a defensive position and waited for the Aedui to attack, which they did - piecemeal.

They concentrated on my right libyan spear unit. My superiority in missile units was overwhelming to the Gaesatae and they were driven back on my left. I wheeled my phalanx around and started digging into the Gaesataes' backs. They broke shortly thereafter, when I threw my heavy cavalry into them. After a long drawn struggle, where I used my cavalry to good effect, I had wiped out the entire Aedui army. My losses were relatively heavy - about 300. Each army had started with around 1300 men, with Aedui considered superior according to the computer.

Lessons learned:
1. Iberian skirmishers can do serious damage to a Gaesatae unit, and can even hold them for a short time.
2. Phalanx units with long spears can hold Gaesatae at a distance and slowly whittle them down.
3. Elephants do not make good cavalry units against Gaesatae.
4. Even relatively light troops can win a battle when propery used, and supported by a couple of heavy hitting units.

/Sygrod

[Tellos Athenaios]

You wouldn't believe to what a good effect you can use the archer/ spearmen.

[CountArach]

Now do it without the slingers

[Dan_Grr]

Lol, ditto.

[Xehh II]

Why aren't elephant's good against those naked guys, damn that was my whole Strategy. How do naked guys kill elephants?

[The Celt]

How do naked guys kill elephants?

You really don't wanna know.......

[Orb]

Why not five units of slingers?
It's historically inaccurate, because they weren't available en masse. It makes it too easy to kill massive numbers of a defensive AI.

How do naked guys kill elephants? Javelins presumably. Elephants are not keen on javelins, I remember.

[Watchman]

I understand about the easiest way to kill an elephant is to cut its throat. The skin is apparently rather thin in the folds down there, and slicing a major artery easy.

To do so against a beastie still rampaging on its feet you of course need to be able to duck under its head without getting trod on, gored, snatched and tossed by the trunk, transfixed by an arrow or javelin from a crewman, or nailed by the light infantry typically detailed as escorts specifically against such attempts and other general unpleasant swarming such big animals were all too often subjected to. A tall order certainly, and many a glory merchant has embarassingly perished trying it, but doubtless pretty spectacular and heroic-looking when it works out.

And the Gaesatae seem like just the right kind of foolhardy loons to try it...

[Dan_Grr]

How to kill an elephant?


- Bring Legolas.

[Kugutsu]

How to kill an elephant?


- Bring Legolas.

And zombies...

[Wolfman]

How to kill an elephant?


- Bring Legolas.

With his ballet stockings, fling hair, and all of santas little helpers he could easily take a 2 ton elephant and make the salon before his ten o'clock pedicure

[Sygrod]

I knew I'd get a couple of good comments.

Now for some details:
1. 5 slinger units. Why not?, I asked. Well, to be honest, if I were a general, I'd take every advantage I could get my hands on. If I could train a large number of soldiers to use slings, and considering the accuracy of the in-game Balearic slingers, they seem less than expert to me, I would be a fool not to, if they are the best ranged unit available. I am sure that my strategy and tactics are not historically accurate, either, but that is because I have a different way of looking at warfare from the way people did 2200 years ago. Back then, many armies fought up close and with sharp instruments. I have always, in any war game, tried to whittle down my enemy from as far away as I can. That's why I love the 48 man artillery-crossbow unit available to Kart Hadast. That is the ONLY artillery unit I can recommend. It has the best range and cuts down enemies with abandon. As it should.

2. Gaesatae and slingers. In this particular battle, the slingers made little difference as far as Gaesatae are concerned. They seem impervious to stones. The Lugoae and general's cavalry, on the other hand, took quite a beating. No, I defeated the Gaesatae with showers of javelins and when they were busy hacking down my skirmishers or were hung up on my phalanx, I ran my cavalry into their backs, time after time, until they broke. I then proceeded to hack them to pieces as they fled. I also kept my elephants nearby. It seems to frighten them.

3. Elephants. I made the mistake of charging into a Gaesatae unit with my elephants. While It made an impression on them at first, I had to get the beasts out of there, at which point the Gaesatae threw their javelins. My 13 elephant unit went down to 9, at which point they panicked and ran amok. During the course of this amok running, 8 more beasts fell. GRRRRRR. Useless animals. The elephant unit in Kart Hadast service is basically only good for 2 things: Opening gates and scaring infantry from a safe position. If I could have some archers on top, it would be a different story.

[the_handsome_viking]

What do you have against naked men exactly? you wouldn't say that to a naked mans face. You shouldn't judge a naked man by his naked skin. I have a naked man as a friend and he's just like you or me.

[Thaatu]

1. 5 slinger units. Why not?, I asked. Well, to be honest, if I were a general, I'd take every advantage I could get my hands on. If I could train a large number of soldiers to use slings, and considering the accuracy of the in-game Balearic slingers, they seem less than expert to me, I would be a fool not to, if they are the best ranged unit available. I am sure that my strategy and tactics are not historically accurate, either, but that is because I have a different way of looking at warfare from the way people did 2200 years ago. Back then, many armies fought up close and with sharp instruments. I have always, in any war game, tried to whittle down my enemy from as far away as I can. That's why I love the 48 man artillery-crossbow unit available to Kart Hadast. That is the ONLY artillery unit I can recommend. It has the best range and cuts down enemies with abandon. As it should.

Bear in mind that excessive use of slingers is basically an exploit of the current system. If you want ranged warfare and want to play with historical realism, try Parthia. They got more than enough shooters to make a satisfied mind.

About artillery, are the units still like this?
The cheapest (anti-infantry) unit has 8 pieces
The second (anti-infantry) cheapest has 4 pieces
The third (anti-building) has 2
The fourth (anti-building) has 1

Doesn't that make the cheapest unit the best because it has twice the amount of barrels as the "better" anti-infantry unit? The damage is hardly an issue for any single person who gets a hit from an arrow projector will surely go down. Then what's the point in using more expensive artillery?

3. Elephants. I made the mistake of charging into a Gaesatae unit with my elephants. While It made an impression on them at first, I had to get the beasts out of there, at which point the Gaesatae threw their javelins. My 13 elephant unit went down to 9, at which point they panicked and ran amok. During the course of this amok running, 8 more beasts fell. GRRRRRR. Useless animals. The elephant unit in Kart Hadast service is basically only good for 2 things: Opening gates and scaring infantry from a safe position. If I could have some archers on top, it would be a different story.

Elephants can be used to devastate cavalry or non-javelin infantry. I use elephants as a battering ram for cavalry charges. Always does its job.

[Sygrod]

Regarding Artillery.

The smallest anti-infantry in normal size setup has 8 weapons and I noticed that it also has longer range, hence superior killing power over the heavy anti-infantry.

The rock throwers are of minimal use. Only place I could need one is for a quick assault on a city with stone walls, which I as Kart Hadast have not had to deal with yet. Elephants have provided that service.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Elephants can be used to devastate cavalry or non-javelin infantry. I use elephants as a battering ram for cavalry charges. Always does its job.

Yep, used them to soften up the Parthian bodyguards before my Phalangitai went in and I pulled the beasts back: I didn't want those to go berserk.

[Gask]

The arrow projectors are odd things, I have tested out both on many battles and they usually end up doing the same amount of kills or very close nearly every time. I aways thought it was odd that the more expensive of the two didnt have more machines, only more goons with their thumbs up their backsides.

[alatar]

Small epephants are usefull, for example once a battle line is formed you can charge the side, and just click on the next unit, even is they don't rout by the time the unit you hit attacks you, you've just hit the next unit, and so on untill you ethier his the other side (having slaughted the enemy, or go berserk and hit the enemy.

[Dyabedes of Aphrodisias]

Carthage's elephants aren't good for too much other than taking out the gates of wooden walls and acting as flank guards. The AI likes to often send its cavalry to the flanks, and that's when you show them why not to do that.

[PSYCHO V]

Elephants. I made the mistake of charging into a Gaesatae unit with my elephants. While It made an impression on them at first, I had to get the beasts out of there, at which point the Gaesatae threw their javelins. My 13 elephant unit went down to 9, at which point they panicked and ran amok. During the course of this amok running, 8 more beasts fell. GRRRRRR. Useless animals. The elephant unit in Kart Hadast service is basically only good for 2 things: Opening gates and scaring infantry from a safe position. If I could have some archers on top, it would be a different story.

I do recall an occasion when Gauls ran under the bellies of Macedonian Elephants and killed them that way. I believe the Jewish Maccabees delt with the Seleucid Elephants the same way. Takes a great deal of guts / bravery and slight madness to attempt such a feat.

my2bob

[Quilts]

'Technically' elephants should murder 'Warband' style troops (Gaesatae/Galatians etc) IF they get into the middle of them.

Obviously there were exceptions, Ptolemy Keraunos did die falling from the back of an elephant when fighting the Galatians.....I wonder if the elephant lived?, but to quote an infamous saying.....these exceptions often prove the rule.

From a 'rock-paper-scissors' perspective these, often very deep, fighting by forward momentum and mutual cohesion, formations of troops (the majority of Gauls/Germans), who lack long spears/pikes would seem to be the perfect target (other than cavalry for obvious reasons) for a rampaging line of elephants.

Most 'records' that I've read emphasis the fear these very large animals caused in the 'barbarians'. Even a drug crazed loon can see that he's facing up to an 8+' tall leviathan that doesn't necessarily fit into his 'hazy' recollection of a heroic duel.....

Cheers,

Quilts

[Zarax]

Maybe some extra mount bonus/penalty could address that?

[Watchman]

AFAIK most Celtic heavy infantry at least have a combat penalty against eles. Not enough to make a major difference if they've got a bit of exp mind you, but it's there. Don't remember about the other "barbarians".