Stockholm we have a problem

[Fragony]

Used to be vikings. Seems like Sweden isn't the multicultural paradise it wants us to believe it is, someone give them an axe and see if there are still a few of the genes left.

I'm ok, you ok, lalalalalaladoobliedoodledee

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/938

Another government filled with cowards failing it's people, you have the right to remain silent and pay taxes.

Oh Watchman, here is your argument, saves you the pain

“When a Swede goes shopping, the lady behind the counter gives him the money back into his hand, looks into his eyes and laughs. When we go shopping, she puts the money on the counter and looks the other way.”

Oh noes, the vikings are comming and we are low on tissues

[Banquo's Ghost]

Goodness, another balanced and entirely unbiased blog with no agenda.

Even has a 1930's reference. Top quality.

[Fragony]

Used to be Celts. Don't shoot the messenger, it hurts so much can't deal with that. And what is wrong with 1930 references, or are these only supposed to be abused by the lefties?

[Yun Dog]

Correct me if Im wrong...


I seem to remember this thing what was it.... oh yeh

if you break the law - and get caught - you goto prison


you wont be waging much of anything other than 'avoidance of soddomy' from there

problem solved

or have the europeans forgotten how to arrest people - its been so long since anyone thought of commiting a crime non-paedofilia related

you call that a crime war - I call it one day in the SE suburbs of Perth and last time I checked these crimes were happeneing pre musilm immigration and pre 9/11

back then we called it juvinile crime

[Fragony]

Arrest them, you kidding? You might hurt their feelings, and they already are so fragile because of the post-natal depression that comes build in since the crusades. And what to do with all these social workers? Socioloco's and the other airbenders need to eat as well.

Why not call it Suzie, that was funny in Snatch I lolled.

[Yun Dog]

Arrest them, you kidding? You might hurt their feelings, and they already are so fragile because of the post-natal depression that comes build in since the crusades. And what to do with all these social workers? Socioloco's and the other airbenders need to eat as well.

Why not call it Suzie, that was funny in Snatch I lolled.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Correct me if Im wrong...


I seem to remember this thing what was it.... oh yeh

if you break the law - and get caught - you goto prison

What I think Fragony is trying to say is that the idea of multiculturalism has extended in many European countries to allow a special dispensation from the law to those from other cultural backgrounds.

This means that many human rights that are enshrined in the law of the country can be dismissed because a person is deemed to be from another "culture."

There is a slightly more reasonable article on the phenomenon here, as it affects women's rights.

I happen to agree with Fragony that multiculturalism as a response to diversity and globalisation is invariably a bad thing - not least because I believe in the concept of universal human rights. Where we often differ is the proposition that this is somehow an entirely Muslim issue - there are many examples from Hindu, Sikh and other religious traditions that have a less developed sense of these human rights. The conservative right tend to extrapolate these problems to "immigrants are burning our wives and raping our houses" rhetoric, whereas the liberal left are too guilty of thinking that special dispensation from the rule of law is somehow helpful to either immigrant or citizen.

Where I suspect we might agree even more is that in my opinion, the real problem is not the immigrants or residents who claim different cultural mores and take the latitude given, but the remarkably unenlightened people who allow the law to be applied differently to different groups.

At no level however, do I buy into the idea that this conflict of ideology will lead to "rivers of blood" and the Downfall of Civilisation TM.

[Fragony]

A bit low on draconian rethoric for my taste, but I salute you BG

[English assassin]

At no level however, do I buy into the idea that this conflict of ideology will lead to "rivers of blood" and the Downfall of Civilisation TM.

Well, no. The rivers of blood do seem to have been rather delayed.

However there is the old cliche that all that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. No doubt you have been following the reports on creeping segregation in our cities, starting in the schools, and as that generation grows up spreading out. Also there was rather an interesting peice on radio 4, I think on saturday evening, about whether muslims might leave the UK, and almost ubiquitous sense of victimhood from muslim interviewees was extraordinary. I mean, sure, I know why the average muslim in the street should not have been affected by islamist terror plots in the UK, but meanwhile, back in the real world... And seriously, if you are a second or third generation muslim living in London, will you shut the **** up about Israel already? Or go and live in Gaza. Whatever.

The "poor us" narrative needs to be challenged, and challenged hard. The state has delivered, and delivered fairly well, for immigrants not only in laws and funds but in the whole premise of the dialogue being multiculturalism= good. Sure, there are racists, and that is bad. But if a minority of racists legitimises muslims feeling like victims in society, then a minority of islamists ought to legitimise me feeling anti-islamic?

I don't see rivers of blood, but I do see a nasty, fragmented future in the cities if we don't do something. Given that I don't see why the majority populatio should change its ways fundamentally to benefit a minority of immigrants, the something in question must involve more give on their part.

Oh, and specifically: faith schools: abolish them. All of them. Its essential.

[Incongruous]

Where's Tribes?
What the frak man!

[HoreTore]

What happened to the famous Swedish nanny state, you say? Don’t Swedes pay the highest tax rates in the world? Yes, they do. But tens of billions of kroner, some say several hundred billions, are being spent every year on propping up rapidly growing communities of Muslim immigrants.

I don't think any Swede has ever paid any "Kroner" in tax. Perhaps someone in the export industry... Oh, and those(50 000?) living in Norway, of course.

Just can't take this seriously, he is so unfamiliar with the swedish system that he doesn't even know what the currency is...

Btw, I don't know the rape numbers for sweden, but here in norway, we have about 50 rapes committed by foreigners each year... I hardly think that's "so extremely high"... As Sweden has twice the population of Norway, about 100 might be the number for them.

[TB666]

I don't think any Swede has ever paid any "Kroner" in tax. Perhaps someone in the export industry... Oh, and those(50 000?) living in Norway, of course.

Just can't take this seriously, he is so unfamiliar with the swedish system that he doesn't even know what the currency is...

Indeed and we don't pay the highest tax in the world.
We pay 31-32%, the danes pay 38%.
But the danes drew those cartoons of Muhammed which made those damn muslims angry so they are our friends so let's ignore them.

As for the article, come on "wage war" ??
As a person that lives close to Rosengård(the area in question), saying that they are waging war against the swedes is just so silly that ain't funny.
A bunch of kids thinks it is fun to mess with the police and all of the suddden it's war.

[HoreTore]

The danes pay an extra 5% tax because nobody knows what the numbers are called down there... The guy at the tax office said 38, the tax payer thought he said 28, and was happy...

[Fragony]

As for the article, come on "wage war" ??
As a person that lives close to Rosengård(the area in question), saying that they are waging war against the swedes is just so silly that ain't funny.
A bunch of kids thinks it is fun to mess with the police and all of the suddden it's war.

Hoho, article says that these bunch of kids see it like that. Is it relativily harmless? Uh-huh. So do we need to go in a spasm? Nope, no need at all. Could it be very easily handled, oh yeah. Thing is, the pc-sturmbrigade seems pretty comfortable ignoring it, pump a little extra money to those that feed on the problems, nothing happens, just more money down the drain. Not very smart in a country where doing nothing costs boatloads of money, and where the natives see that they are ignored. One can only take that much, and when the first immigrants are attacked everybody will be amazed of how such a thing could happen in Sweden, Sweden out of all countries.Should have been here the day after van Gogh, there was something in the air, believe me. Not just smoke of a few burning mosks.

Edit: hmmm, not that harmless. Malmo sounds like a great place to live. Sorry to hear about your third largest city, and sorry for even the officials saying they don't longer control it.

http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyhete...529910,00.html <---sorry it's in Dhimmi


Malm&#248;, Sweden. The police now publicly admit what many Scandinavians have known for a long time: They no longer control the situation in the nations's third largest city. It is effectively ruled by violent gangs of Muslim immigrants. Some of the Muslims have lived in the area of Roseng&#229;rd, Malm&#248;, for twenty years, and still don't know how to read or write Swedish. Ambulance personnel are attacked by stones or weapons, and refuse to help anybody in the area without police escort. The immigrants also spit at them when they come to help. Recently, an Albanian youth was stabbed by an Arab, and was left bleeding to death on the ground while the ambulance waited for the police to arrive. The police themselves hesitate to enter parts of their own city unless they have several patrols, and need to have guards to watch their cars, otherwise they will be vandalized. "Something drastic has to be done, or much more blood will be spilled" says one of the locals.

On the bright side, situation in the Netherlands isn't nearly as bad as this.

[Husar]

Well, on TV when they show how the police works etc, they sometimes say things like: "This area is so dangerous that the officers are afraid to go here" etc and while they never say it, it's often immigrant areas with a few natives mixed in, well whatever the people, if the area is that dangerous, I say scramble a big taskforce go in and make it bloody or peaceful, whatever the people living there want. But just avoiding an area because a bunch of kids scare the officers is plain wrong IMO. We need a bit more open conflict at times, just avoiding conflict all the time will cause you to end up in a corner you cannot escape from.
If an area is known to be dangerous, send more police, not less, "I don't see it so it doesn't exist" is not a solution.

And I agree with EA.

[Fragony]

Heh, these rascals aren't dangerous unless you are a granny or badly outnumbered or both, the ones that want to keep the dream alive are. I doubt someone with a bit of guts and will to act will have a very succesfull career, cowards can be terrible adversaries, and usualy much better connected and funded.

[Blodrast]

So, Tb666, HoreTore, you're saying that there is no problem, and the article is full of daisies and lies ?

[Ironside]

http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyhete...529910,00.html <---sorry it's in Dhimmi

That article that ended up in FOX news as the base to thier Immigrant muslims are waging war in Europe serie? From what I've understood, the situation has generally improved in Rosengård the last few years (parts of it are still a ghetto though). You did notice that the article is from 2004 right?

That was really an awfully errorsome article, for example that rape increase is quoted incorrectly from his own source and also includes a law change that made more crimes classified as rape.
It does seem to be an increase in rapes though.

TB666 the original article is from 2006 so I don't think it was written due to the recent riots.

[Fragony]

You did notice that the article is from 2004 right?

No, I wanted some more info and just went on to do da google. I think I remember the article you are referring to, something with Sweden reaching a critical forgetwhat. Year ago or so, if it has improved I want to know how.

[Vladimir]

I posted some article last year about immigrant rapes of Swedish women. The two may have been related.

[TB666]

So, Tb666, HoreTore, you're saying that there is no problem, and the article is full of daisies and lies ?

No, there is a problem. No one denies that. Our immigration policy has failed utterly and very few people including politicans will say otherwise.
However this article tries to make things alot more worse then it actually is.

For example

In one of the rare instances where the Swedish media actually revealed the truth, the newspaper Aftonbladet reported several years ago that 9 out of 10 of the most criminal ethnic groups in Sweden came from Muslim countries.

Now anyone that is knows swedish newspapers know that Aftonbladet is the worst source you can ever have about anything. Aftonbladet is a tabloid, pure and simple. When they aren't reporting about Beckham coloring his pubic hair, they make up sensationalist stories. They have been sued several times for making stuff up.
If their report is accurate I wanna see it from someone other then that paper.

The number of rape charges in Sweden has quadrupled in just above twenty years. Rape cases involving children under the age of 15 are six times as common today as they were a generation ago.

Once again he uses bad sources. It destroys his argument.

Yet the number one priority for the political class in Sweden during this year’s national election campaign seems to be demonizing neighboring Denmark for “xenophobia” and a “brutal” debate about Muslim immigration.

Not true. The number 1 thing was more jobs and better economy.
Denmark wasn't even mentioned.

Meanwhile, as their authorities have largely abandoned their third largest city to creeping anarchy, there is open talk among the native Swedes still remaining in Malmö of forming vigilante groups armed with baseball bats out of concern for their children’s safety

As a native swede that has lived all my life in Malmö I have never ever heard any talk about vigilante groups.

[Blodrast]

Now anyone that is knows swedish newspapers know that Aftonbladet is the worst source you can ever have about anything. Aftonbladet is a tabloid, pure and simple. When they aren't reporting about Beckham coloring his pubic hair, they make up sensationalist stories. They have been sued several times for making stuff up.
If their report is accurate I wanna see it from someone other then that paper.

Ah, I see. One main reason I asked this question was because I've stumbled upon some articles from Aftonbladet several times in the past, and I wasn't really sure what's up with it, i.e. how serious of a publication it is, etc. Normally, for a one-time use, I wouldn't care, but, like I said, since I did stumble upon it several times...

Thank you for clarifying, I'll keep in mind that I should take their articles with more than a pinch of salt.

[Yun Dog]

I see this whole thing as relative really

Im sure its much worse in Europe

but...

In Australia we have had successive waves of immigrants since WW2, and having only a short history, each wave has made a large social and cultural impact (for the better)

First it was the Italians, they were taking all our jobs and not speaking english, and most of them were probably just wainting to restart the war

then it was the greeks and macedonians waging open warfare on our streets (i think they still are)

then it was the serbs and croats waging wars against each other (european christians no less) and people wanted to have the army round them up and send them home... interesting

somewhere in there was the Vietnamese who were creating gettos, and taking over Richmond

then it was the 'asians' who were hanging out in 'triad' gangs and were untouchable -spiderboys apparently had annexed the southern suburbs (my home) luckily I was paying them protection money so I was alright !!- ooops I forgot I had to pay the protection money??? Hey Im not dead???

I think I even read a story about gangs of Africans gangraping (there must be all of 20 Africans in Perth) - wow they all mustve had sex with the same woman

now its the muslims

anyone would think with all those gangs and wars going on you couldnt walk down the street for the bloodshed

People have the impression of these things but generally impressions are created by the media and are misguided

my advice wait for the next wave of immigrants so you can start villifying them, that will make you forget about the muslims

[Adrian II]

I see this whole thing as relative really

Im sure its much worse in Europe

but...

In Australia we have had successive waves of immigrants since WW2, and having only a short history, each wave has made a large social and cultural impact (for the better)

First it was the Italians, they were taking all our jobs and not speaking english, and most of them were probably just wainting to restart the war

then it was the greeks and macedonians waging open warfare on our streets (i think they still are)

then it was the serbs and croats waging wars against each other (european christians no less) and people wanted to have the army round them up and send them home... interesting

somewhere in there was the Vietnamese who were creating gettos, and taking over Richmond

then it was the 'asians' who were hanging out in 'triad' gangs and were untouchable -spiderboys apparently had annexed the southern suburbs (my home) luckily I was paying them protection money so I was alright !!- ooops I forgot I had to pay the protection money??? Hey Im not dead???

I think I even read a story about gangs of Africans gangraping (there must be all of 20 Africans in Perth) - wow they all mustve had sex with the same woman

now its the muslims

anyone would think with all those gangs and wars going on you couldnt walk down the street for the bloodshed

People have the impression of these things but generally impressions are created by the media and are misguided

my advice wait for the next wave of immigrants so you can start villifying them, that will make you forget about the muslims

I like your style, Yunus Dogus.

Isn't there a Dutch Fifth Column waiting in the Oz wings as well, ready to take power at the drop of a wooden shoe?

[Vladimir]

I like your style, Yunus Dogus.

Isn't there a Dutch Fifth Column waiting in the Oz wings as well, ready to take power at the drop of a wooden shoe?

Well it's true that you have to keep an eye on the Dutch but the Belgains are the real threat. They're just too evil. Ask this guy:

[Yun Dog]

I like your style, Yunus Dogus.

Isn't there a Dutch Fifth Column waiting in the Oz wings as well, ready to take power at the drop of a wooden shoe?

well arguably (and tongue in cheek) you could say - firstly, we had the Dutch immigration and if it wasnt for their 1800s 'open coastline' policy allowing the accused English in. Then, Australia would be all cheese, clogs, and pot smoking - whats not to like

on topic

I think it is important to remember that along with the hanky masked teenagers burning cars

there is also ordinary men women and families, who have sacrificed everything to start a new life in a new land, of which they are grateful for the opportunity, and have such glorious ambitions as getting a job, owning a house, growing their family, and gaining some education.

but their story doesnt sell newspapers or have people logging onto MSN livefeed - so we dont hear about them

[Lord Winter]

The artical reminds me of things I've read from the U.S. gilded age (1880's-90's or so) newspapers. The imegration system may be broken but I highly doubt that even a quarter of the arguments in that article are true.

Every generation has thier own immegrent boggyman. Most of these don't ruin the countrys but add to the culture.

[Radier]

This was all over the news a time ago. Young immegrants where interviewed
and told that they "waged war against the swedes".

BTW yesterday this happened.

http://www.svd.se/dynamiskt/stockhol...d_15353429.asp

Allmost riot in immegrant suburb in S&#246;dert&#228;lje. Stonethrowing against police etc.

And just two weeks ago there where riots in Roseng&#229;rd. Stonethrowing,
beatings and alot of fire.

I love multiculturalism

And TB666, if you want to save your precious city, you need to vote for SD.
You know that don't you?

Edit: Just read one policeofficer has been injured in the S&#246;dert&#228;lje
suburbfighting. Busdrivers now refuse to enter the area.

[TB666]

And just two weeks ago there where riots in Rosengård. Stonethrowing,
beatings and alot of fire.

Riots is a strong word to use and usually implies that there was a political goal behind it. There wasn't in Rosengård. It was just local thugs wanting to mess with the police. Just as it seem to be in Södertälje, a minor gang.
And also as far as I know there was only 1 beating in Rosengård during the "mess" and it was unrelated to the "mess".

And no I won't vote for Socialdemokraterna , kidding.
Yeah I probably will vote for Sverigedemokraterna next election.
I had hoped that the new goverment would do something about it but it seems they won't.

[HoreTore]

Riots is a strong word to use and usually implies that there was a political goal behind it. There wasn't in Rosengård. It was just local thugs wanting to mess with the police. Just as it seem to be in Södertälje, a minor gang.
And also as far as I know there was only 1 beating in Rosengård during the "mess" and it was unrelated to the "mess".

That's the problem with newspapers. Within a large area, let's say you have four areas. In each of those areas, one thing happens. However, when the newspapers comes to report, they add all four together, and says the name of the large area, because that's what people know. So, while the four things happened separately and had little or nothing to do with each other, when you read it, it sounds like it's been hell there....

Damn, I hate tabloids.