Defining victory in Iraq

[KafirChobee]

The latest definition of victory - straight out of Dubya's mouth, "Sucess is not no violence".

So, we have no plans to return the peace to pre-invasion days. We would be happy if it settled down to a Darfur situation though.

[spmetla]

That's quite an assumption, how does leaving "no violence" out of a definition for victory mean that a situation similiar to Darfur is acceptable. I don't like Bush but that statement is being taken completely out of context, so long as "crusaders" are there we will have some violence happening along with the usual strife between the Sunnis and Shias. I still believe that so long as the Iraqi government is reasonably stable and not about to be toppled by the rival parties within that we'll have achieved a success, this is also coupled with that government not doing a purge of enemies the moment the US looks away.

[KafirChobee]

That's quite an assumption, how does leaving "no violence" out of a definition for victory mean that a situation similiar to Darfur is acceptable. I don't like Bush but that statement is being taken completely out of context, so long as "crusaders" are there we will have some violence happening along with the usual strife between the Sunnis and Shias. I still believe that so long as the Iraqi government is reasonably stable and not about to be toppled by the rival parties within that we'll have achieved a success, this is also coupled with that government not doing a purge of enemies the moment the US looks away.

It is not "no violence", it is "not no violence". In other words, when Bush & Co. determine that the level of violence in Iraq reaches there determined level of acceptablitiy (maybe equal to the Watts riots), he will proclaim victory (again) and begin a withdrawal of our troops presence.

Victory in Iraq is being redefined on almost a daily basis by the Bushys. Heck, Ms. Rice even said that the reason we are in Iraq is because the government invited us there - though I have a great deal of problem with this statement since I have no memory of Saddam asking us for help. Maybe she meant the present government of Iraq, it was a premonition from god; or some such. Actually it is something much simpler - they (Bushys) keep reaching back to things that worked in previous administrations to justify their own fubars, this one was based on the supposed Diem asking for help (they tend to forget we allowed the coup, ultimately his assassination, that overthrew him). It is as though they feel a need to continue to justify their reasons for invasion, and our continued occupation by constantly revising them - sooner or later, one of them might have a ring of validity that someone outside their true believer circle might buy into - after all the `wmd' thing worked once. If a blind man keeps swining a hammer at a nail, in time he may actually hit it. That seems to be their philosophy.

Btw, Your points are well taken. But, according to a report from our own intelligence oversight there, the present Shia government has already secretly set up their own secret police along the same lines as Saddam. So, once we leave it is inevitable that a strongman (or Ayatollah) will emerge and begin rounding up all the usual suspects - that is anyone that disagrees with them. It is inevitable, and there ain't a damn thing we can do about.

Not no violence.

[rotorgun]

I define Victory in Iraq as not having to be deployed, or watch my fellow military bretheren be deployed to such a worthless piece of ground that is infested by Sodomites and women beaters any more. Unfortunately, the powers that be have gotten us into a situation designed to make them and thier defense contrating freinds a great deal of money for a long time-all coming from the taxpayers mind you.

I believe that that is what they define victory as: a chance to give the military-industrial money making machine that was created during the cold war a means to continue making money. They have achieved what they desired-an unwinnable morass that we cannot leave without a major loss of national honor, that will require a long term (and I mean decades) military presence in the region, all needing the production capacities and services of thier industrial friends. It's like One Source on steroids for them.

By 2009, the culprits will all be down at the ranch counting thier billions while the poor and middle class finish the dirty work.

For me, the quicker we leave the better.

[Zaknafien]

amen brother. victory will not be had until the citizens of America wake up and refuse to accept the war profiteering and criminal actions of the corporations and their administration puppets.