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  1. #1

    Default Re: [COLOUR="BLACK"]Eire Politics[/COLOUR]Election time

    It's not neccesary to declare your affiliation in order to vote what with it being a secret ballot and all.

    However, I am a FF member and whats more will be conducting my patriotic duty tommorow - am a polling clerk for the day, working from 7am till 10.30pm.

    FG were more of the rich snoobish class at the start - it was why Haughey raised such an uproar when he was seen fox hunting amongst FG as it was seen as a man from a working class background getting above himself. That was related to me by former boss who was FG through and through.
    Last edited by Grey_Fox; 05-23-2007 at 22:06.

  2. #2
    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
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    Default Re: [COLOUR="BLACK"]Eire Politics[/COLOUR]Election time

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Fox
    FG were more of the rich snoobish class at the start - it was why Haughey raised such an uproar when he was seen fox hunting amongst FG as it was seen as a man from a working class background getting above himself. That was related to me by former boss who was FG through and through.

    Hey, I resemble that remark. Anyway, I always thought cunning Charlie would have made a great fox to chase - I believe that's why we invited the fellow to hunt in the first place...

    Looks like your lot will be back at the trough soon enough. I have to concede though, Ahern has done some good things for the country, and Enda is no Fitzgerald.

    Ah well, off to throw my vote away.

    (OMG, they killed Kenny!)
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  3. #3
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: [COLOUR="BLACK"]Eire Politics[/COLOUR]Election time

    Nice to see we aint the only one's with an inept government...

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    When Bertie Ahern casts his vote this morning in the Irish Republic’s closest-fought general election for decades, the cameras would do well to focus on his clenched teeth. The Fianna Fail leader and Taoiseach is not happy about having to go into a polling booth with a “stupid old pencil”.

    A half-hour drive from his North Dublin constituency the object of Mr Ahern’s ire is under lock and key, stored in a hangar on a coastal military base: thousands of electronic voting machines, purchased at a cost of more than €50 million three years ago.

    And the expense is rising. Storage of the 7,500 Dutch-made machinery costs another €1 million (£685,000) a year.

    The machines were used as pilots in a number of constituencies in the 2002 general election and in the second Nice referendum that same year.

    They were mothballed after the independent Commission on Electronic Voting said, before the 2004 local and European elections, that it did not have confidence in them.

    Last year, in another report, the commission raised further questions about the security of the machines.

    “Our silly old system is outdated,” Mr Ahern told the Dail, the Irish parliament, recently.

    “We have to correct the software, which will cost €500,000, and then try to move forward. Otherwise we will go into the 21st century being the laughing stock with our stupid old pencils.”

    The issue reemerged just before Mr Ahern called elections when the Opposition raised the cost as an example of the profligacy of the Fianna Fail-Progressive Democrat coalition Government.

    With an economy that has recorded year-on-year growth for the past decade, the Opposition has tried to portray the Government as wasting what may have been the country’s boom years through incompetence.

    As traffic jams worsen, hospital waiting lists lengthen and schools burst at the seams, it’s a strategy that seems to strike a chord with harassed voters. Opinion polls have seesawed throughout the campaign, making it too close to call.

    The two main political groupings, Mr Ahern’s centre-right coalition and Enda Kenny’s centre-left alliance of Fine Gael and Labour, are running neck-and-neck.

    If neither of the big two gets a majority under Ireland’s complex multi-seat constituency, proportional representation system based upon the single transferable vote, smaller parties, such as Sinn Fein, the Greens or independents, could hold the balance of power in the 166-seat lower chamber.

    The likelihood is that tomorrow, when the count begins around the country, the outcome of the election may take days or even weeks to emerge.

    With each of the Republic’s 43 constituencies electing four or five TDs (Members of Parliament), manually recounting votes to eliminate candidates took up to six days in some cases during the 2002 election. Today voters must choose by writing ‘1’ against their first choice then ‘2’, ‘3’ and so on against successive candidates with those “stupid” pencils.

    “What kind of a country is this?” asked Pat Rabitte, leader of the Labour Party, last month as he rubbed salt into Mr Ahern’s wounds over the e-voting fiasco.

    Mr Ahern agreed, saying that he was embarrassed by the speed of France’s presidential election result. He blamed the opposition for raising political objections to the “perfect” voting machines.

    He said: “You’re dead right. I must have felt embarrassed when I watched over 80 million people have the result of their highest polls ever – over 85 per cent – in two hours.

    “I had to go down to Meath and apologise to the people of Meath for being a technologically advanced country and one of the biggest exporters of software, that we’re going back to the pencils”.

    “It’s a disgrace, and any waste of money on the voting system lies at your door,” he told his opposition tormentors.

    “With a bit of luck, our election will be finished in about five days, as we go checking the bins to see if a vote blew off the pile. It is an embarrassment, and I hope in the next Dail, that we are able to rid ourselves of the horrendous difficulties we have trying to be a modern country.”

    Ballot box

    2.9m eligible voters

    63% turnout at last election, down from 74% in 1982

    166 seats being contested

    1918 date of the first election to Dail Eireann, when Ireland was still not officially independent

    10 Taoiseachs have held office, including Bertie Ahern

    24 years Eamonn de Valera spent in total as leader of the Dail before going on to become President

    Sources: ElectionsIreland.org; University College Dublin, The Irish Times


    Gotta use stupid pencils

    @ Don This registering your intention to vote thingy has always bemused me. Here in the UK (and ROI) we take it as a central plank of the democratic process that the vote cast is secret. Obvious really when you think about it. As for members of the UK being in the Dail, this may appear strange but with the close history between our two peoples it's not as weird as it may look at first glance. Remember that ROI citizens have always been able to vote in UK elections, and now that we are both members of the EU, any citizen of the EU can vote in another EU states elections if they register and reside there.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

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  4. #4

    Default Re: [COLOUR="BLACK"]Eire Politics[/COLOUR]Election time

    Nice to see we aint the only one's with an inept government...
    yep and it should be noted in regards to this bit.....
    from the article.......And the expense is rising. Storage of the 7,500 Dutch-made machinery costs another €1 million (£685,000) a year.
    ...
    that happens to be another very questionable issue about Berties government .
    Like who was it that got the storage deal , how much over the odds the deal pays , what are the special conditions written into the deal that mean the tax-payer is getting thouroughly fleeced for a long time to come over storing what is effectively a pile of junk .
    Still I suppose storage was better option , they had to retain the space in their own completely illegal land-fill dumps for the completely illegal contaminated medical waste to be dumped .

  5. #5
    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: [COLOUR="BLACK"]Eire Politics[/COLOUR]Election time

    I feel that whoever wins its actually an election to lose the economy will be a busted flush in a year or less whoever wins gets the blame. Enda is only viewd as weak cos most people voting have grown up with Bertie Fianna Fail are effectively the face of the state for 20 years with a slight rainbow glitch back in early 90s. The idea Ahearn is an ordinary man when he has friends that can give bundles of cash on loan and never seek it back is a laugh. I am voting FG cos simply its time to call a halt to years of scandal and bribes nuff said.
    They slew him with poison afaid to meet him with the steel
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  6. #6
    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: [COLOUR="BLACK"]Eire Politics[/COLOUR]Election time

    The idea of registering for party affiliation is to assign you to a primary. In your system, you only get to choose which party you wish to vote for, not who gets the nomination within the party. In our system, we actually vote on who the party intends to nominate as it's candidate for a particular office. At least in theory.

    In practice, our ability to select a candidate varies from state to state. Where I currently live, we nominate who's going to be the party candidates in the general election even at the state-wide level. In my former state, you only nominated the presidential candidate, and by the time they held their primaries, the decision had been made anyway (you could if wanted throw your vote away for a guy that could get enough electoral votes anyway).

    As for declaring your vote... in reality, it's a generally accepted principal of American politics that the best citizens aren't that partisan and will cross party lines and will make the leap from time to time. The term 'Reagan Democrats' wasn't a fabrication. Likewise, there were enough Republicans angry at Gerald Ford for pardoning Nixon that they voted for Carter.

    So, in European parlimentarian systems, do you have any input into who the party nominates as a candidate for various offices if you're not in that party?

    Also, still waiting for an explanation on the difference between Labour, Socialist and Social Democrat? In reading the party planks for these 3 parties, there doesn't appear to be any difference at all.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: [COLOUR="BLACK"]Eire Politics[/COLOUR]Election time

    Well Don I am off to do my democratic right so no more from me tonight. But your right there is no difference in those just slight change in name.
    They slew him with poison afaid to meet him with the steel
    a gallant son of eireann was Owen Roe o'Neill.

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  8. #8
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: [COLOUR="BLACK"]Eire Politics[/COLOUR]Election time

    Thanks for that insight Don
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

  9. #9

    Default Re: [COLOUR="BLACK"]Eire Politics[/COLOUR]Election time

    In your system, you only get to choose which party you wish to vote for, not who gets the nomination within the party.
    That is incorrect.

    A person stands as a candidate for the constituency. They declare which party they belong to, such as FG, FF, Labour etc, or else as belonging to no party - being independent.

    The elector then votes for the individual candidates in their constituency in order of preference. The party that has the greatest number of candidates elected becomes the government.

    And it was a 68% turnout in my polling office. Was a bugger to get up at 6am, though I had fun with the presiding officer who was dead on.
    Last edited by Grey_Fox; 05-24-2007 at 23:12.

  10. #10
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: [COLOUR="BLACK"]Eire Politics[/COLOUR]Election time

    What Don is saying, is that in our system, we decide who will be the party's candidate in the primaries (a contest within the party), the winners of the party-specific primaries go to the general election to face the other party winners and independents. What he is asking is: How does FF choose a candidate to run for a particular MP spot? Who makes the decision that Sean Q. O'Public will be the FF candidate? Can 3 guys belonging to FF run for the same spot?
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  11. #11

    Default Re: [COLOUR="BLACK"]Eire Politics[/COLOUR]Election time

    which polling station were you working in Fox ?


    three Independent candidates
    of which Cox is independant FF and Connoly is independant labour

  12. #12
    Humbled Father Member Duke of Gloucester's Avatar
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    Default Re: [COLOUR="BLACK"]Eire Politics[/COLOUR]Election time

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache
    .....and now that we are both members of the EU, any citizen of the EU can vote in another EU states elections if they register and reside there.
    I used to think this was true too, but EU citizens who are not British or Irish can only vote in local elections in the UK (not sure about elections to the European Parliament).
    We all learn from experience. Unfortunately we don't all learn as much as we should.

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