Thoughts beyond words.

[Gregoshi]

Sinan, you are a very lucky man to have such a relationship with your grandfather. It is not selfish or despicable to want to hold onto something so cherished as what you have with him. I have "known" you here at the Org for several years and have always had great respect for you. If your Org personality is but a shadow of your true self and you are a reflection of your grandfather, then he truly must be a great man.

I hope that you will be able to communicate with him right up to his last days. I wasn't so fortunate with my grandparents, so I wish you both the best.

[Vladimir]

To steal yet another quote: A dying man's death is hardly his own affair. Point is that death and dying is a part of life. Life is what's important. That's the true importance of things like life insurance and books, something for the living. A dead man does not care about those he leaves behind, but the living care about those they've lost. Feeling nothing is far worse than selfish desire because you really want to keep close to you, those you care about the most.

I'm not sure if he's written any books, but I hope he has. It may be too late for an oral history but he must have some papers and it seems that many know him. If you want to honor him, put his thoughts and deeds in writing to tell the living that he has done and share what you feel. Sharing is the only way to defeat selfishness.





Ok, call me heartless but you may be able to make some money out of the deal too. You're not dragging a dead man thru the mud but celebrating his life. Extra coin makes for a better celebration.

[Tamur]

A gem amongst the posts this morning as I wake. Thanks for being brave and sharing your thoughts Sinan. It made me think about my own father (with whom I've luckily had a good relationship) and the way time is bringing him closer to when he departs this life. I always thought of him as immortal (and I think he did too until a couple of years ago) but eventually even the best of us have to go.

Best wishes to you.

[Beirut]

What wonderful thoughts.

I'm sorry the situation is making you unhappy, but look at the eloquence and thoughtfulness the situation is bringing out of of you. We require a certain amount of pain and suffering in our lives to progress, and you look to be near an evolution of thinking that will change you significantly.

After watching both my parents die of brain cancer, one a year after the other, in a long drawn out affair that utterly sapped them of their intellect, I admit to having felt a freedom, a new found individuality. Yes, I was alone, so to speak, but with that came an undeniable feeling of being alive in the world, responsible for myself and my surroundings, and, oddly, somewhat like a marionette with the strings cut. The loss, though painful, absolutely elevated me to a different level of life. With that came new thoughts and new ways of thinking. Also, an odd and ongoing duty to represent their influence on me in my own way in the day to day scheme of things.

Never feel bad about feeling sorry for yourself when someone close dies. It's our nature, and it shows you had the heart to let someone in. Believe me, when you pass from here to there, I'm sure there will be those who will feel very bad for themselves.

As to your post, it is our pleasure to listen.

[Bijo]

Don't know much about you, but I do know that pain and suffering will make a person greater, Sinan. Or they at least have the possibility to change one significantly (in different ways). Through pain and suffering one might achieve -- as put forth by Beirut -- progression, whether this progression is great or small, slow or fast -- though it doesn't have to be progression even... it can be anything. It depends on both the situation and the personality of the person in question.

You appear like a person of good intellect, so I'll try to spare you philosophies in your thread.


To address the "selfishness" you spoke of:
If you are sad for the loss, because you'd be alone, we could say that yes indeed it is based on it. But even if this's so there's no shame therein, and there doesn't have to be disgust or something like that. You are not necessarily despicable for it if it's the case.


Well, what can be done? It is nature, and it will always be nature -- dying, etc. Some people actually close off emotions or "get rid of them" but many would find this heartless / cold. But it can be undeniably effective, for one'd have more chance of preventing suffering, for whatever situation, as suffering is based on these emotions and desires.


I say, if his passing occurs, don't regret or be too upset. Be not sad for being alone, for you'll find others if this worries you a lot, and ultimately we are actually -- indeed -- alone. But most importantly: be not sad for his future absence, but be glad for his past presence.

Looking back will break you down : looking forward will build you up. However, sometimes it differs.


I hope my post makes sense to you, and that it facilitates you in a beneficial consolidating way :)



And PS:
My apologies for any incoherency (if at all): sleep is something I've forgotten the meaning of.

[Togakure]

Substance. Nice. Thank you, Sinan.

Your words do great honor to your Grandfather. As words are, at best, a limited representation of our thoughts, our Heart ... *bows*

I hope you won't think me presumptuous as I share a few thoughts and experiences that relate somewhat to what you've written.

I don't think you are selfish in feeling sad, or worrying. I think it's great that you question the motives behind your feelings and thoughts. I hope you won't be too hard on yourself. It sounds as if your Grandfather has added tremendous value to your life. It is no surprise then, the level of attachment that you feel.

It took a while for me to overcome the attachment to my mother when she passed away. I was 28. The effects of the abruptly broken and most significant attachment clouded my thoughts and actions for some time. When enough time passed, the attachment faded, and I was able to consider my loss clearly. Now, to honor her, I try to incorporate the values which I so admired in her into my life. I try to help others selflessly, just as she helped me, my brother, my father, and so many others. If I bother to do a thing, I do my damndest to do it "right." I try to live my life in a way that would give her reason to smile. I rarely feel the intense sadness now when I think of her. I feel gratitude, respect, love--sometimes even happiness, when I know I've handled myself in difficult situations in ways she would appreciate. In a sense, she lives on--in me.

I will be forgotten after I die. Billions won't even know I existed. Thousands have known me, but have already forgotten, or will forget before I'm dead. This is of little consequence. What's important to me is that I honestly feel good about the life I've lived--that I added value.

I think some questions aren't meant to be answered. I also think there are many questions our minds cannot answer. These answers are found in the Heart. The trouble I have is quieting my mind, learning how to "contemplate" in a different way.

Perhaps someday you'll be able to do what your Grandfather has done for you for someone else.

[Fragony]

What you are looking forward is terrible, but you will look back with a smile. It just takes a while, you will manage. Wish I could do better.

And no, you are not being selfish.