What to do with religion?

[Dogman55]

[QUOTE=uanime5]So only certain factions can have priests, while other factions have religious buildings but cannot train priests. I would like to point out that not being able to train priests does not mean that the faction does not having a religion (all factions must have a religion). Also what is the point of having religious buildings it you cannot train religious agents (other than the small amount of religious conversion and some health benefits)?

Is it possible to add additional affects or units such as in RTW and MTW? Like how Denmark got War clerics from churches, The empire sigmar worshipping building could produce small groups of priests of sigmar. Higher end religous buildings for Chaos could be the way to produce daemons. Just my take.

[uanime5]

Is it possible to add additional affects or units such as in RTW and MTW? Like how Denmark got War clerics from churches, The empire sigmar worshipping building could produce small groups of priests of sigmar. Higher end religous buildings for Chaos could be the way to produce daemons. Just my take.

That is possible and can be easily coded.

[Dogman55]

Cool :)

[rhammi]

just an idea as far as how to make ork waghs different than just an average force. similar to how unique units are only available to crusades, so could they be in he wagh forces, perhaps stronger/more expensive as they are under the influence of the wagh. incorporatings priests/religion could be quite difficult, and perhaps rather than seeing religion as religion, it would be more similar to covert operations. Increasing the relative costs of these dissension causers and decreasing their overall effects would more closely represent this. Therefore the player could have some control over 'religion' as I propose it would be more of a demoralizing agent. However, changing the effects of priests may not be viable, so instead I would propose to greatly increase their costs, so no over-invested nation would be able to afford more than 1 'priest' per 5 provinces they control at any given time. Of course it would be possible, just make their upkeep so high that additional agents would reduce the more important case of maintaining strong armies.

[bluntfang]

Great looking mod, my two bits. Crusades are a part of Warhammer, period. Crusades were launched by the Empire, Brettonia, Tilea (and the surrounding regions) against the Skaven, Araby, and to a certain extent the undead. I will dig up some fluff sources when I get off work .

Warhammer really does boil down to a fight between good and evil, bearing in mind that both sides don't mind fighting one another along the way. It is important to point out that there are at least two distinct camps. High Elves, Wood Elves, Dwarves, Brittonia, The Empire, Kislev, the Border Princes, the Tilean City States, all of them can and do make alliances, and support one another. But you would never see them making an alliance with Choas, Beastmen, Skaven, Undead, Dark Elves, Choas Dwarves, or Fimir. Orcs and Goblins fit in there for the most part as well. There are a couple of groups that seem to swing both ways, as in are more neutral parties, such as the Slaan/lizardmen, Hobgoblin Hegomy, Araby, and some of the tribes between Kislev and Choas Wastes. You could also throw Cathay into that mix for good measure. The point is, there are two main groups who DO NOT tend to mix well, and modifying the existing religious structure could be a way to do that. How would I do it, if I could? By alignment/motivations.

Lawful/Good

Neutral/Some Evil

Choatic/Rest of the Evil

I have heard different numbers for a religious cap in MTW II, Some say six, others 7, I will shoot on the low end, at six.

Religion 1 “Catholic” (Neutral, crusading kingdoms)

Empire
Brettonia
Kislev
Tilean States
Border Princes
Estalian Kingdoms
Dwarves (reclaiming lost dwarf holds, grudges, etc) (could be orthodox instead)

Religion 2 “Orthodox” Good, Lawful, Tend to be Isolationist, no crusades /jihads
Wood Elves
High Elves

Religion 3 Chaos Worshippers “Muslim” Jihad, Evil, Chaotic Evil Races (have history of mass invasions)

Khorne
Nurgle
Tzeentch
Slaaneesh
Beastmen
Orc and Goblin
Skaven

Religion 4 “Heretic 1” Non Crusading/Jihad Neutral (even a little evil)

Old Slaan/Lizardmen
Hobgoblin Hegomy
Northern Steppe Tribes
Araby
Cathay/Dragon Isles


Religion 5 heretic 2 non jihad evil races

Vampire Counts
Tomb Kings
Dark Elves
Chaos Dwarves

That gives me

7 “catholic faction”
7 “muslim factions”
2 “Orthodox”
4-5 “heretic 1” factions
5 “heretic 2” factions


The key here is you have you two main divisions, the catholics and muslims. Those in one camp despise those in the other, meaning that although they could be allied for a short period of time it is unlikely to endure. The orthodox factions should also have enmity towards the muslim ones. Heritic 1 factions are could go either way, while heretic 2 factions are the opposite of the orthodox and would tend to lean towards aligning them selves with the “muslim” factions.

The different “religions” are more like levels of tolerance. You can stratify the groups with different cultures, just like you have northern and southern European cultures, we could stratify the catholic factions into:

Northern European
Empire
Brettonia
Border Princes

Southern European
Estalia
Tilean States

Eastern Culture
Kislev

Dwarves, who knows. If I understand the game mechanics correctly though this stratification also causes unrest, IE having a SE Church when you are a NE factions causes some unrest until you upgrade it or destroy and replace it. I assume the same thing could be done to separate the Muslim factions into a chaos culture, ork and goblin culture, and skaven culture.

Just my two bits LOL. I am willing to help as needed, but I do not have extensive modding experience in MTW II, though some in other games like Morrowind. I do a bit of petty messing around with basic game files, nothing fancy.

[Casuir]

The problem isnt a matter of crusades not being part of the warhammer world, its a matter of how the game mechanics deals with them. Crusades are called by the pope who is a physical character on the map with his own faction which has its own hardcoded rules and is elected from agents of the catholic factions. Jihads are less complicated but they are called by agents who have other hardcoded effects. We can find a way to work around these and implement crusades and the like without re-writing how they work in the warhammer world it'll be done.

[Pantsalot]

Religion 3 Chaos Worshippers “Muslim” Jihad, Evil, Chaotic Evil Races (have history of mass invasions)

U don't know how prejudice against Muslims that sounds

[DaCrAzYmOfO]

I remember reading something about an albion campaign some time back, that had mages or some sort of dark shrouded man that gathered together the "good races" to gain some magical item or something in the like, while there was an evil version that gathered the "evil races" to fight the good ones.

Maybe you could change the model for the priest into a dark shrouded mage or aspiring champion or something in the like, while they may not exactly give piety......probably code it so it doesnt change the unrest cause of religion or whatnot....BUT they could still call a crusade, and have the pope represent the leader of these heroes/mages or w.e they were.

and same with "muslim" factions, whether they be the traditional good factions or evil factions, same process

[Garland, Chosen of Horo]

As a temporary measure, one could simply add the factions to the Order/Destruction alignment, at least until the religions are coded in.

[Astinos]

Yes to religion.
No to pope.

[koko198]

Khaine isn't that the blood god in WH40k?

[Goncalou]

Khaine isn't that the blood god in WH40k?

yeah it is, he still exists after about 40000 years, ya know cause he's immortal.