Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: An easy way to make hoplites' phalanx realistic.

  1. #1
    Back in style Member Lentonius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    U.K
    Posts
    445

    Default An easy way to make hoplites' phalanx realistic.

    In ancient greece the phalanx generally didn't look like it did in RTW.

    In descr_model_battle, to make your hoplites, or any other unit in fact, move and fight differently, there is just a couple of very simple steps to take.

    1) Open up descr_model_battle

    2) find any hoplite unit. I'm using hoplites for this example...


    type greek_hoplite
    skeleton fs_spearman, fs_swordsman ; combat spear
    indiv_range 40
    texture slave, data/models_unit/textures/unit_greek_hoplite_slave.tga
    texture greek_cities, data/models_unit/textures/unit_greek_hoplite_greek.tga
    model_flexi data/models_unit/unit_greek_hoplite_high.cas, 15
    model_flexi data/models_unit/unit_greek_hoplite_med.cas, 30
    model_flexi data/models_unit/unit_greek_hoplite_low.cas, 40
    model_flexi data/models_unit/unit_greek_hoplite_lowest.cas, max
    model_sprite slave, 60.0, data/sprites/slave_greek_hoplite_sprite.spr
    model_sprite greek_cities, 60.0, data/sprites/greek_cities_greek_hoplite_sprite.spr
    model_tri 400, 0.5f, 0.5f, 0.5f


    The only thing you need to change here is this line:

    skeleton fs_spearman, fs_swordsman

    Then, find any javelin unit,in this case i'm using hastati:




    type roman_hastati
    skeleton fs_javelinman, fs_swordsman

    Just copy this fs_javelinman and paste it over fs_spearman, so it looks like this...


    type greek_hoplite
    skeleton fs_javelinman, fs_swordsman



    ONE WORD OF WARNING:

    cavalry skeletons are different, and i personally wouldn't advise using them on non-mounted units...


    Cavalry skeletons look like this:

    fs_hc_spearman

    HERE IS THE FINAL RESULT:






    They have their spears like they should. I know they look far from perfect, but it is an easy way to make your hoplites look more historic...

    ALSO, THERE SHOULDN'T BE MORE THAN 2 SKELETONS unless ITS A GENERAL, WHICH I HAVEN'T DONE A TUTORIAL FOR YET



    MERRY CHRISTMAS
    Last edited by Lentonius; 12-23-2005 at 15:42.
    Hey, Im back

  2. #2
    The Philosopher Duke Member Suraknar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Navigating the realm of Ideas
    Posts
    707

    Default Re: An easy way to make hoplites' phalanx realistic.

    Very nice indeed! :)

    This does certaintly add "distinction" flavor, of classical hellenic phalanxes, made up of Hoplites using the "Dori"(comming from Dorian Culture) versus the Alexandrian era Phalanxes made up by Phalangites using the "Sarissa".

    The "Xyston" which is mentioned in game for the Armoured Hoplites was actually the spear used by Alexandrian Cavalry(Companions etc).

    Just a small question, hoplites use both fs_spearman and fs_slow_spearman skeletons, however there is no fs_slow_javelinman skeleton, I supose we can safelly use fs_javelinman for both cases right?

    Thanks
    Duke Surak'nar
    "Η ΤΑΝ Η ΕΠΙ ΤΑΣ"
    From: Residing:
    Traveled to: Over 70 Countries, most recent: and

    ~ Ask not what modding can do for you, rather ask what you can do for modding ~
    ~ Everyone dies, not everyone really fights ~

  3. #3
    Member Member MansaSakura's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    53

    Default Re: An easy way to make hoplites' phalanx realistic.

    Is there a way to make the spears shorter? Thnx in advance.

  4. #4
    The Dark Knight Member wlesmana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Indonesia
    Posts
    602

    Default Re: An easy way to make hoplites' phalanx realistic.

    Your easier option is to use the short_pike attribute.
    Another is to actually edit the pike model in 3dsmax and actually shorten it. However, if you do, then it would also affect the short_pike since they're using the same model, except the short one is forcibly shortened by the engine.

  5. #5
    Member Member MansaSakura's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    53

    Default Re: An easy way to make hoplites' phalanx realistic.

    thank you for your quick reply. how do use this "short_pike attribute". I'm new to modding but have learned a lot lately. is the short_pike attribute in a specific file? thnx again.

  6. #6
    The Dark Knight Member wlesmana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Indonesia
    Posts
    602

    Default Re: An easy way to make hoplites' phalanx realistic.

    Check export_descr_units.txt. Find the entries for the units you want. The info at the top of the file is self-explanatory.

  7. #7

    Default Re: An easy way to make hoplites' phalanx realistic.

    Hi, I've done this mod, but when I play a battle, the hoplites don't actually thrust their spears. They hold them overarm, like they are supposed to, but it's a bit stupid if they don't actually fight with them. Is there some way to fix this? Thanks!

  8. #8
    The Dark Knight Member wlesmana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Indonesia
    Posts
    602

    Default Re: An easy way to make hoplites' phalanx realistic.

    Yea but not that easy, basically you'll need to create a new animation for their attack, which is not that easy unlss you're familiar with 3dsmax and animation. You could use the javelinman's attack (thrown javelin) animation but it looks sorta odd.

    The easiest way is, of course, to download SignifierOne's animation pack, which includes the overhand hoplite animation set. Look for it at TWC.

  9. #9

    Default Re: An easy way to make hoplites' phalanx realistic.

    Thanks, I'll check that out.

  10. #10

    Thumbs up Re: An easy way to make hoplites' phalanx realistic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lentonius
    In ancient greece the phalanx generally didn't look like it did in RTW.

    In descr_model_battle, to make your hoplites, or any other unit in fact, move and fight differently, there is just a couple of very simple steps to take.

    1) Open up descr_model_battle

    2) find any hoplite unit. I'm using hoplites for this example...


    type greek_hoplite
    skeleton fs_spearman, fs_swordsman ; combat spear
    indiv_range 40
    texture slave, data/models_unit/textures/unit_greek_hoplite_slave.tga
    texture greek_cities, data/models_unit/textures/unit_greek_hoplite_greek.tga
    model_flexi data/models_unit/unit_greek_hoplite_high.cas, 15
    model_flexi data/models_unit/unit_greek_hoplite_med.cas, 30
    model_flexi data/models_unit/unit_greek_hoplite_low.cas, 40
    model_flexi data/models_unit/unit_greek_hoplite_lowest.cas, max
    model_sprite slave, 60.0, data/sprites/slave_greek_hoplite_sprite.spr
    model_sprite greek_cities, 60.0, data/sprites/greek_cities_greek_hoplite_sprite.spr
    model_tri 400, 0.5f, 0.5f, 0.5f


    The only thing you need to change here is this line:

    skeleton fs_spearman, fs_swordsman

    Then, find any javelin unit,in this case i'm using hastati:




    type roman_hastati
    skeleton fs_javelinman, fs_swordsman

    Just copy this fs_javelinman and paste it over fs_spearman, so it looks like this...


    type greek_hoplite
    skeleton fs_javelinman, fs_swordsman



    ONE WORD OF WARNING:

    cavalry skeletons are different, and i personally wouldn't advise using them on non-mounted units...


    Cavalry skeletons look like this:

    fs_hc_spearman

    HERE IS THE FINAL RESULT:






    They have their spears like they should. I know they look far from perfect, but it is an easy way to make your hoplites look more historic...

    ALSO, THERE SHOULDN'T BE MORE THAN 2 SKELETONS unless ITS A GENERAL, WHICH I HAVEN'T DONE A TUTORIAL FOR YET



    MERRY CHRISTMAS
    Hi thanks for helping with the hoplites, If it's not too much to ask do you know anyone or anyplace where I can find the Parthian imortals skin. Thanks in advance.

  11. #11
    protector of Taxandria Member Marcus Furius Camillus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Geel, Flanders , Belgium
    Posts
    50

    Exclamation Re: An easy way to make hoplites' phalanx realistic.

    giving barbarian generals a two hander is just a question of copying the
    fs_2handed and paste it over the fs_dagger part, isn't it ???

    and how about giving Barbarian, Roman and Greek generals a sword instead of a dagger ? Also a question of pasting fs_swordsman over
    fs_dagger , I presume ?

    O, yeah, couldt it be that there are some unit I can't use in those files ? Like an Barbarian Warguard and a Greek hypaspist, or are they EB units ?


    MARCVS*FECIT
    -Once killing starts, it is difficult to draw the line


    - C. Cornelius Tacitus

  12. #12
    Anything that isn't 'member' Member Squid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    596

    Default Re: An easy way to make hoplites' phalanx realistic.

    This would make them use the appropriate annimations, but it doesn't give them the correct weapon. Giving a unit that has a one handed sword a two handed animation doesn't change the sword to be two handed. To do that you need to edit the model.

    -Trait/Ancillary/Building Editor

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity;
    and I'm not sure about the universe." -----Albert Einstein

  13. #13
    The Scourge of Rome Member Spartan198's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    THIS... IS... CALIFORNIA!!! *boot*
    Posts
    1,319

    Default Re: An easy way to make hoplites' phalanx realistic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexius_1984
    Hi, I've done this mod, but when I play a battle, the hoplites don't actually thrust their spears. They hold them overarm, like they are supposed to, but it's a bit stupid if they don't actually fight with them. Is there some way to fix this? Thanks!
    I just now tested this mod and my hoplites thrust their spears. I only tested it on one hoplite unit,but should that matter?
    My Greek Cavalry submod for RS 1.6a: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=368881

    For Calvin and TosaInu, in a better place together, modding TW without the hassle of hardcoded limits. We miss you.

  14. #14
    Been there, conquered that.... Member Darkvicer98's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    238

    Default Re: An easy way to make hoplites' phalanx realistic.

    A question. The Armoured Hoplites and Spartans Hoplites have fs_slow_spearman under their skeleton.

    Does it work if you change it to fs_slow_javelinman? If i take out the slow bit the Armoured and Spartan Hoplites go too fast and unrealistic.


    Cry HAVOC and let slip the dogs of War!

    A brave man may fall,but he cannot yield-Latin Proverb

    Arms keep peace-Latin Proverb

  15. #15
    The Dark Knight Member wlesmana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Indonesia
    Posts
    602

    Default Re: An easy way to make hoplites' phalanx realistic.

    The "fast" and "slow" part only affects running though, and nothing else.

  16. #16

    Default Re: An easy way to make hoplites' phalanx realistic.

    When I use the short_pike attribute the units just walk lazily into eachother and pull their swords immediately. This is even in phalanx mode and they don't even attempt to use their short spears. Has anyone else tried the short_pike attribute and seen this too? Or is there something else that might be changed that is causing this...? If I had my other computer I would post a screen.

  17. #17
    The Dark Knight Member wlesmana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Indonesia
    Posts
    602

    Default Re: An easy way to make hoplites' phalanx realistic.

    If the stats for their second weapon (the sword) is higher than the pikes, then they'd use them instead for close combat. If you want them to never use the sword, just remove the secondary weapon stats by making them 0s like other units with one weapon. short_pike doesn't behave like phalanx. Basically they behave more like regular spearmen except with the option to raise or lower the short pikes.

  18. #18
    Sharp/Charismatic/Languorous Member Novellus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    152

    Default Re: An easy way to make hoplites' phalanx realistic.

    I almost had this working:

    I had a unit of Militia Hoplites and their code looked like this:


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    type greek hoplite militia
    dictionary greek_hoplite_militia ; Militia Hoplites
    category infantry
    class spearmen
    voice_type Light_1
    soldier greek_hoplite_militia, 40, 0, 1
    attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap
    formation 1, 1, 2, 2, 5, square, phalanx
    stat_health 1, 0
    stat_pri 5, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 25 ,1
    stat_pri_attr spear, spear_bonus_8, short_pike
    stat_sec 3, 1, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, sword, 25 ,1
    stat_sec_attr no
    stat_pri_armour 0, 3, 5, flesh
    stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
    stat_heat 2
    stat_ground 2, 0, 0, 0
    stat_mental 4, normal, highly_trained
    stat_charge_dist 30
    stat_fire_delay 0
    stat_food 60, 300
    stat_cost 1, 230, 100, 30, 40, 230
    ownership greek, slave


    But all of their spears are backwards due to the overhand animation I borrowed from some peltasts. And I heard that there's no way to fix the spears without changing the model UNLESS I hear otherwise.
    My Balloon! -Strategos Alexandros- "What to do with the Epeirotes?"

    Why did the Romans fall?

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Because everyone got sick of the Lorica Segmentata!

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO