Your opinions on MTW 2, version 1.02

[Fenix7]

1.02 patch mainly addressed many SP issues and few MP ones. As far I've played-I've managed to play couple of matches, I would say that there is a difference.

I've not been seeking for any bugs as I do not have time for this, so others will mention how many bugs there still are.

- it seems that spears and pikes work well
- schiltrom formation doesn't seem to work imo
- heavy and light infantry do good work vs spears
- archers seems to have better effect now but far from desired
- cavalry is still very strong (people frequently using max 8 or 10 cav rule)
- AP units animation are working now
- hybrid units stop on the spot; javelin units don't start using javelins when
they could
- musketees (I have not tested them yet)

This is short and quick note. All other observations are welcome.

[pike master]

game is better balanced now than i thought it would be. cavalry are a no gooda against spearmen now which is perfect.

spearmen are perfect now. strong against cav and weak versus heavy infantry.

no more all cav armies i think. it seems that an all cav army will be a fools choice patch 1.2 or at least i hope so.

[Wolf_Kyolic]

Hehe everybody reported 1.0 to be perrrrrrrfectly balanced and sooooo bug free when the game was released and then a months later...Boom!!!...

Now I give it 2 weeks before people starting to moan about some ISSUES. ;)

But...Do not worry! 1.3 will fix it aaaaallllll!!!! In September! I mean it. Honestly. They are even gonna fix the lag with 1.3.

[Fenix7]

Hehe everybody reported 1.0 to be perrrrrrrfectly balanced and sooooo bug free when the game was released and then a months later...Boom!!!...

Now I give it 2 weeks before people starting to moan about some ISSUES. ;)

That's why I've made this post. I've mentioned first impressions without being too enthusiastic. To go in this process slowly. I'm not a player who would be searching for a bugs due the fact I don't have too much time on disposal. I'm waiting for comments of more people like Paolai, Elmo and others who have traveled long road in Total War series and have gathered a lot of experience during those days.

Lag indeed is still an issues (still it is better then it was before that), archers are still not as effective as many would like them to be, on the other hand spears and pikes seems to do their job. MTW 2 v1.02 compared to RTW/BI in my opinion is vastly improved.

Let me stress here that Shogun was exceptional same as it was MTW/VI but strangely Viking expansion despite most balanced era in MTW was not that popular.

Ok back to the topic. In RTW/BI lately you were winning with armies which were designed to win and in MTW 2 v1.02 you can win because of the way how you use your army and your victory is not altogether based on the units you have picked.

I don't want to mention more then that. Let's not be enthusiastic too much and take slow steps. Some are working hard to bring back some life:
http://www.clancommunityshield.net/website/

I'm convinced that TW MP when Shogun was established was unique community. Fragments of it remained and from them fresh community started to develop. As many times mentioned before I will do this once more. Shogun offered many excellent players and individuals and later followed by Medieval. Total War was a glue and nothing more then this. People come and go. That's the law of nature.RTW was not the only cause that people left. Some get tired and others had other issues in life which needed to be addressed. They can still come back later on.We can be nostalgic. Memories remain and we usually remember good old days which we are not going to enliven but we can look forward for new one. Post your opinions and observations.

[Paolai]

I just played few games and it is too early for me to decide if now its a better game. First impression is that rushes are still too strong cause archers are too weak and spears kill rate is not good enough, but I have to play more games. I need at least about 2 weeks more.

[YellowMelon]

Palamedes (unoficially) told me that most of the balancing will be put into 1.3 (aka kingdoms). Also, for tournaments and such, Pala is making it so the game can be edited at any time and this version can be used by the tournaments ( I assume you would need a seperate install). So at least tournaments can work on their own balance schemes.

As for this patch, I have not played it yet because d2d version is not out yet. How I DO regret using d2d...

[Wolf_Kyolic]

Palamedes (unoficially) told me that most of the balancing will be put into 1.3 (aka kingdoms).

Yeeees, yeees!!! He told me too. Yeeeees!!! 6 months and we will have it all. Just 6 months left guys. Only 6 months more...

[Puzz3D]

Palamedes (unoficially) told me that most of the balancing will be put into 1.3 (aka kingdoms).

After the initial withdrawal of the patch, the whole month of April was available for balancing the v1.02 in addition to whatever time was available towards the end of the original 3 month patch period. Given the above statement, any expectation of a balanced MP game has to be put off until after the release of the expansion. And still there is no mention of addressing lag or the incompatibility of M2TW multiplayer with 32 bit Athlon cpu's.

Then again, the majority of the people playing Total War multiplayer these days are not interested in balanced gameplay. What they have clearly said is they want a gameplay where the winner is determined by which units are purchased.

[Lusted]

After the initial withdrawal of the patch, the whole month of April was available for balancing the v1.02 in addition to whatever time was available towards the end of the original 3 month patch period.

Balancing would take months in testing time. Yes the patch was originally meant to be out in Feb and its now May, but as it was a series of successive delays they could never commit to adding in unit balancing given the delay it would me.

I've also chatted to Palamedes about it, he even worked on balancing with me for LTC 2.3, so play that if you want to see what me and him came up with.

[guyfawkes5]

Then again, the majority of the people playing Total War multiplayer these days are not interested in balanced gameplay. What they have clearly said is they want a gameplay where the winner is determined by which units are purchased.

If said statement is true, then the current multiplayer community is clearly ... hence my puzzlement as to why ?

[Wolf_Kyolic]

he even worked on balancing with me for LTC 2.3, so play that if you want to see what me and him came up with.

Mods did not work for the community in the past and the situation will be the same. You are dreaming if you expect everyone to play a mod instead of the original.

We need a decent balance for the official version and its not there in this patch and CA will NOT release 1.3 before 6 months and god knows how they will balance it, because it is an expansion. There will be many new units and the game won't be balanced again and then we will have to wait for 1.4 but then a new TW will be anounced and etc...Lmao! This was the last chance which is wasted away -carefully.

[Lusted]

Mods did not work for the community in the past and the situation will be the same. You are dreaming if you expect everyone to play a mod instead of the original.

Of course i don't expect them to play the mod, but it features balancing done by the CA Oz dev working on rebalancing for 1.3 and Kingdoms, so it might give people an idea of what to expect in them.

We need a decent balance for the official version and its not there in this patch and CA will NOT release 1.3 before 6 months and god knows how they will balance it, because it is an expansion.

They balance it like they balance the main game, using .xls files and the different types of units(pikes, shield and sword, heavy cav etc.). Jason can balance things much better than i can as he has access to the .xls files and can make big changes more easily, but i'd expect to see rebalancing done in Kingdoms and 1.3, as Kingdoms will use the rebalance done for 1.3 for its unit balance.

[Wolf_Kyolic]

Of course i don't expect them to play the mod, but it features balancing done by the CA Oz dev working on rebalancing for 1.3 and Kingdoms, so it might give people an idea of what to expect in them.



They balance it like they balance the main game, using .xls files and the different types of units(pikes, shield and sword, heavy cav etc.). Jason can balance things much better than i can as he has access to the .xls files and can make big changes more easily, but i'd expect to see rebalancing done in Kingdoms and 1.3, as Kingdoms will use the rebalance done for 1.3 for its unit balance.

How about the new units of Kingdoms? New units=new imbalance. And we will need a new patch to fix that. I guess my son wil be playing the best TW ever when he is 17-18 years old.

I am not married yet! :)

[Lusted]

How about the new units of Kingdoms? New units=new imbalance. And we will need a new patch to fix that. I guess my son wil be playing the best TW ever when he is 17-18 years old.

Well the new units will be given stats based on the new rebalance, it's not just some system where they randomly give stats to units, they have a system for assigning stats to a unit based on unit type, weapon used, how elite they are etc.

[Wolf_Kyolic]

it's not just some system where they randomly give stats to units, they have a system

That is why I am hopeless!

[Puzz3D]

Balancing would take months in testing time. Yes the patch was originally meant to be out in Feb and its now May, but as it was a series of successive delays they could never commit to adding in unit balancing given the delay it would me.

Well that confirms what I suspected that balancing was never on the agenda for M2TW v1.02 just like it wasn't on the agenda for RTW v1.2 despite the presence of a highly talented community beta team which could have done it; most of whom joined that beta team because they had the expectation, as I did, that balancing would be part of the effort.

I've also chatted to Palamedes about it, he even worked on balancing with me for LTC 2.3, so play that if you want to see what me and him came up with.

I already play a statically and dynamically balanced mod of a Total War game, and the gameplay is not characteristically boring as some people claim. Yesterday we were able to play a 2v2 with huge units without lag except for the pauses that GameSpy has started causing recently. That's sixteen 120 man units for each player giving a total of 7680 men in the battle, and one of the players was using a cell phone modem connection!

I might try your LTC 2.3 if I can find M2TW dirt cheap since I can't justify paying the highest price of any Total War game for what I consider to be the worst or perhaps next to the worst game in the series. I will probably just wait for the v1.03 patch and then see what people say about M2TW MP. If they still have to use unit limits, then that's a big red flag as far as I'm concerned. Of course, nothing can be done about the inferior battle engine, but if it's not compared to the old battle engine it might do.

Well the new units will be given stats based on the new rebalance, it's not just some system where they randomly give stats to units, they have a system for assigning stats to a unit based on unit type, weapon used, how elite they are etc.

That's good to have a system, but in addition to that you should use feedback from actual multiplayer battles to fine tune it. That way the gameplay becomes something more than just figuring out the best units. I think that suggestion of making a separate era that emphasises playbalance and not a huge number of unit types and large number of factions is a good one. Then you don't have the monumental task of balancing all the units and factions. Those eras can be left as is for the majority of players who aren't interested in balanced gameplay.

[Lusted]

Well that confirms what I suspected that balancing was never on the agenda for M2TW v1.02

I suspected it wasn't as well, CA probably wanted to use players feedback from the leaked/official 1.2 patch now the shield bug has been fixed.

That's good to have a system, but in addition to that you should use feedback from actual multiplayer battles to fine tune it. That way the gameplay becomes something more than just figuring out the best units. I think that suggestion of making a separate era that emphasises playbalance and not a huge number of unit types and large number of factions is a good one. Then you don't have the monumental task of balancing all the units and factions. Those eras can be left as is for the majority of players who aren't interested in balanced gameplay.

I know Jason got some Spanish clans, think Mordred was involved, to test the balancing for LTc 2.3, and it changed quite a bit from the early versions to the balance seen in 2.3.

[Fenix7]

Can we stay on topic? This discussion should be continued elsewhere.

[Paolai]

I wonder why they do not changed the archers values in this patch, is it so difficult? Too much time to change 1 number?

[Puzz3D]

I wonder why they do not changed the archers values in this patch, is it so difficult? Too much time to change 1 number?

If balancing tactical battles was not on the agenda for v1.02, then no changes would be allowed. Do SP players support that change? If they don't, then CA is unlikely to consider it for the v1.03.

[Monarch]

I doubt they have a balance team. RTS developer without a balance team, rofl.

[Lusted]

I doubt they have a balance team. RTS developer without a balance team, rofl.

Well you'd be wrong then wouldn't you, as they do.

[pike master]

as a mp i am grudgingly satisfied with the unit balance now.

as a single player i am disgusted with the unit balance.

[Paolai]

Well you'd be wrong then wouldn't you, as they do.

Well I wonder then why they did not understand that archers needed better stats. Probably they have a balance team, but is the wrong one.

[Wolf_Kyolic]

CA balance team:

[Fenix7]

If you turn around the archers value which they had in RTW/BI where archer unit could even win a melee against heavy inf and cav units (!?) you get their value in MTW 2 where their effect is so to speak negligible. Even if you manage to get them behind enemy lines they don't cause any real damage.

Desert archers and lbows (1 or 2 units per player) might be still useful in 3v3 matches because of their high values and even that is questionable.

[KrooK]

Guys ....
i have stupid question
have you eaten all brains?

Now some of mine impressions ( I have played only 1 3vs3 and some 1vs1s so its just beginning)

Archers for me have good stats - their accuracy seems to be about 25% bigger.
With shield bug corrected heavy archers are now worth of buying. Yesterday I have seen
dismounted dvor (4 units val 1 ) who practically destroyed 2,75 pavs unit (0,25 were killed by my cav :P ). Dvor lost about 2 units. For me its well balance.

Many players now keep telling that horse archers are too strong. For me they are ideal now.
They are firing well when not into circle and behind enemy. Of course players who have never fought against horse archers started yelling.....
I noticed that mounted crossbows are quite powerful unit now - its good IMO. Now no one can tell that he lost because opponent had ha. Everyone have well , cheap ha with armour piercing.

Anyway if I remember well some of community members have tested RTW before its release.
What were results of these tests.

more impressions soon
KrooK


BTW: Kyolic if you want child - mother don't have to be your wife :)

BTW 2 - pavs are now nice unit. Defend 14 and armour piercing....

[Jesus`]

Welp it can be hard to make good use of Pavise crossbows and longbows or dismounted dvor archers if the enemy rushes you, and they are expensive, so you gotta always be prepared for that.. and if you do get rushed making good use of them is a must or you are pretty much boned.

[pike master]

i dont think rushing will be a large issue now but not inconceivable. there are still ways to rush someone but it will be twice as difficult now.

[Lusted]

Well I wonder then why they did not understand that archers needed better stats. Probably they have a balance team, but is the wrong one.

They probably do, but as i said unit balancing wasn't on the cards for 1.2, so of course the stats won't be changed.