Traits, ancillaries and titles - Gathering some ideas

[Meneldil]

I know it might be a bit early to start thinking about these things, but I think it couldn't hurt to start throwing ideas. Hope Bwian and co don't mind ;)
While they might appear secondary, I think they're really important in order to catch a warhammer feeling, and overall, to make the game more fun and exciting, aswell as looking really polished.

So, I'll start by throwing my own ideas, and more precisely ideas for my favorite faction : the Bretonnians

Obviously, bretonnians should have specific traits that would be related to their carreer as knights.
Basically, as they perform their duties and serve the lady of the Lake, they should have access to higher ranks in the knightly hierarchy.

Most characters would start as Errant Knights. As such, they wouldn't be allowed to get any governor-like trait and ancillaries, no titles, etc, but would eventually get a bonus to moral (as errant knights as known to be willing to face the biggest threat possible to prove their bravery).
To achieve the title of Knight of the Realm, they would have to achieve various yet simple objectives : winning a few battles here and there for example.

Knights of the realms would lose their moral bonus, but would have access to governor, land-owner and other management titles, traits and ancillaries.

From now on, a few character, fulfilling some conditions (determined by other traits if possible), would become Knights of the Quest. As such, they would lose all of their governor traits (once again !), but be rewarded by battle-oriented stats (more moral, possibly more hitpoints, etc.)

Finally, by performing extraordinary tasks, a few chosen characters among the few knights of the quest would become Grail Knights. These tasks should be really hard to achieve, defeating huge armies against all odds, fighting far away from Bretonnia (don't know if coding that is possible, I doubt so), and things like that. Once they've become Grail Knights, they would be allowed to get back their management trait aswell as their battle traits, and possibly get more bonus (afterall, Grail Knight are among the most powerful human beings).

[Jargon]

Great ideas Meneldil, just the kind of thing that will add to the Warhammer feeling of the game.

Some other ideas for Bretonnia:
- Squire (fairly standard)
- Lady of the Lake Blessing (something about how they have been divinely touched)
- Minstrel (An increase to their fame)
- Damsel Saviour (known for running around saving damsels in distress)
- Reliquae (This general has a personal relique, increasing piety/command?)

If Chaos are a un-playbale horde race, i'm not sure if they need these, but a logical benefit for Chaos Generals would be mutation traits:

Leg Mutation (increased campaign map movement)
Chest Mutation (increased hitpoints)
Tail Mutation (increased what?)
Claw Mutation (increased attack)
Tentacle Mutation (theres no way to increase the speed/number of attacks without changing the animation is there?)

There are lots of possibilites, extra teeth, extra hands, toxic cloud attacks etc. There would also need ot be titles called Marks:

Mark of Khorne (increased combat stat)
Mark of Tzeeth (increased range combat)
Mark of Slaneesh (increased diplomacy? stat)
Mark of Nurgle (increased hit point stat)

The question is whether a Chaos General is part of Chaos Undivided before they gain a mark, or whether they become undivded afterwards. The great chaos lord Archaon is Undivided, and so can control all chaos armies, but there is also the fact that he is specfically chosen by the Chaos gods for the role. The title hierarchy I would suggest would be:

chaos undivided (no bonus, all chaos start this way) ----> mark of chaos (specific bonus) -----> Chosen of the Gods (lots of bonuses)

There should be a small percent chance for every non-chaos general in the game to possibly gain a Chaos Corruption trait. This fits in well witht he lore of the game that chaos is everywhere. It could range from an extremly slim chance for High Elves and Dwarves, to the largest percent chance for Humans and Orcs. I dont know if the Tomb Kings can be influence dor not by chaos. This will decrease their piety, loyalty, authority or whatever the appropraite stat would be, and it would be nice if this could potentially grow untill the general is fully chaos corrupted.

Touched by Chaos -----> Corrupted by Chaos -------> Controlled by Chaos

[Dogman55]

Hi guys. Warhammer geek here, at your service.

Anyway. Some traits for the Lizardmen could be the different spawnings of the old gods for characters, or even trainable types of units with the traits:

Tzunki: Tzunki is associated with water and the spawned under his influence may have sea green colored skin and have gills and webbed hands. Can't really see what you do with this one. +% to movement points, maybe? Or if it's possible, lessen the penalty from climate affects?


Sotek: Although the Great serpent Sotek isn't an Old One, he is in fact the only true lizardmen "God" in the conventional sense (a being created by the sub-conscience of those who believe in him) , skinks and saurus are still spawned under his influence. Those who are can be very furious fighters and have red skin, scales or crests.
For me this one seems pretty obvious. +attacks in some way to the character and his unit.

Quetzl: Those who are spawned under the warrior and protector have more bony crests and they are hardier than others.
+Armor or defense seems like a good choice for this one.

Tlazcotl: Those who have yellow crests or scales are blessed by Tlazcotl. Those who are, are just impassive as he is.
I don't know if theres such a way to make characters or units to not rout. But if there was, this'd be it.

Chotec: Those who are blessed by the solar one have an uncommon amount of energy that makes them keep going while other cold-blooded creatures would stop. They also have a fiery orange hue to their bodies.
+% to movement points looks good here!


Haunchi: The jaguar one of the earth and night passes on the ability to pass through the thickest growth with ease.
+Combat bonus in woods or looks a good choice here.

Tepok: Those who are blessed by the winged serpent have purple coloring and high resistance to magic.
I haven't seen whether you guys are going to add magic into the game, if it is even possible. If not, might just leave this one out.

Itzl: Itzl's spawning is recognized by a large bony crest and they produce a musk that calms Cold ones.
Can't see what this mark could do. Heh.

Xhotl: Those ones who are watched over by Xhotl have a magic field protecting them that also strikes all those who harm the marked warrior.
I would just say this one adds defense an/or hitpoints.

Blessed mark of the Old Ones: The rarest of all spawnings it is recognised by white or albino colouring. The are highly respected, for their fate must be important.
Something must be special for this trait. Since its sucha respected trait, + morale would be an obvious choice. This trait, in my opinion, should be the one with the most benefits to it, but should be also very rare.

[Bwian]

Warhammer Geeks always welcome here!

[Jubal_Barca]

One idea I may be using for WHTW1 is having magic items as ancillaries.

So eg;

Chaos Warpsword, obtainable by a chaos general with valour 6+, gives him +5 attack strength, or whatever.

This could be a good way to add in magic items as they are an integral part of the tabletop game.

[Meneldil]

Yeah, that's pretty obvious. I haven't listed any artefact or item cause I have to find my old army books ;)

[Raz]

This has probably already been brought up previously but, a trait or ancillary that has the effect of BattleSurgery, for Vampire Counts Generals.
Or something similar. It could be either a trait or ancillary depending on whether the General is more of a necromancer or has a necromancer as an ancillary. Either way it'd be a great asset.

[Jargon]

Nice idea Raz, it would make sense that Vampires can resurrect a portion of their army after battle. Maybe call the trait "The Dark Arts" or simply "Necromancy". I like the idea of having it as both a Necromancer ancillary and a trait. This would especially be useful for Vampire Counts, as the majority of their troops will be rubbish, altough if they have a 20 stack army of Blood Dragons, it would be a little overpowering for them to have too many come back.

As for the discussion of magic items, iv'e read somewhere that ancillaries can be transferred between generals, but I havn't found anything similiar for traits. Does anyone know if it is possible to swap traits, or if it can be modded? If not, then I guess all magic items should be made as ancillaries, so they can be swapped between characters.

[Meneldil]

Special items will be made as anciliaries I think. That's how RTW handled them, and that's aswell the easiest way to make them.

[monkian]

Ancillary for Empire Assassins

Magnin Throwing Knife - + 2/3 to Assassination Attempts.

(Got to love Beasts in Velvet)

[Bongfu]

Would be nice if we could have the Empire family members gain certain positions, like Rieksmarshal and such.

[Raz]

A quick scan through told me that Chaos Armour hasn't been mentioned, should come standard with all chaos generals... And since it can't be removed it should add to the Personal Security of the general. Try stabbing someone whose wearing inch thick steel with a knife and I doubt they'd wake up if they were sleeping.

[Caradrayan]

Concerning Chaos Armor: personal security isn't a bad idea, I would suggest it add to dread. Chaos characters should certainly be intimidating, so chaos armor could be one way to show that.

Since I just got my Vampire Counts book, I'll suggest some VC traits and ancillaries.

night fighter: +1 command at night (this should be standard)

Supernatural Horror: +2 dread

Avatar of Death: +1 command

Lore of the Dead: increased casualty recovery.

disciple of Abborash: +1 chivalry

cares for the living: +1 chivalry

True Von Carstein: +to management

scourge of the living: +2 dread

Uncontrollable Thirst: +2 command when attacking -2 command when defending. +1 dread

Decendant of Strigos: +1 dread, -2 management

Hulking monstrocity: +2 wounds

Skavenslayer: +command vrs skaven


ancillaries:

necromancer: +to casualty recovery.

creatures of the night: +2 sight radius

the Black Coach: +1 dread

twisted bodyguard: +1 hp and +2 personal security

Competent butler: +1 management

Standard Bearer: +1 command

Walach's Bloody Hauberk: +2HP

The Flayed Hauberk: +1HP

The Staff of Damnation: +1 command

The book of Arkan: +5% movment

Screaming Banner: +1 dread

Standard of Hellish Vigor: +10% movement



a note on Dread vrs chivalry: I see dread being far more common among the vamps, but I think there should be a smattering of chivalry traits. It should be possible for a vamp that gets lucky and cultivates chivalry (releasing prisoners and not sacking settlements) to achieve a positive chivalry.

[Dead Guy]

VC could make for a very interesting family tree if you involved all the blood lines, but perhaps too complex and difficult to set up with the constraints of the game. I don't know, i don't mod, but maybe it's too much work on the detail level of a single faction. If I've got things right, VC will be represented mostly by von Carstein which makes it hard for them to be descendants of Strigos for example.
I think blood dragons in particular could be considered somewhat chivalrous as far as vampires go, and your other suggestions are also good, but perhaps not fitting if the focus is on the von Carsteins.

Cheers!

[Kuningaz]

Good to see there's some DE stuff here. I have only one thing to add: Probably the black guard should also increase loyalty as they watch that general carefully...

[Raz]

Black Guard should only be for faction leaders, they don't dish them out willy-nilly. On the table-top, I believe you can only have one per army unless you have the witch-king as your army's general. Right?
And unless your faction-leader is disloyal to his own throne that he sits upon, it should only increase personal security.

Also, I'd like to say that I personally believe there are far too many ancillaries and items for each faction, maybe you should only include the main ones.