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Thread: Just about to start an Egyption Campaign

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    Default Just about to start an Egyption Campaign

    What units would make up a good full stack?
    Shaun

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    Beware! Relentless Looter! Member Flavius Merobaudes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Just about to start an Egyption Campaign

    In my opinion, the Egyptian unit roster lacks some diversity. They have good cavalry but not better than their neighbours. When it comes to infantry it's basically Saracen militia and Saracen militia and Sar-...
    Tabadariya (?) are their best melee infantry but they come late in the game. They are like weakened Warangians with their axes. They have good attack values but lack a decent armour or shield so they are good flanking troops while your saracens hold the line. I think those saracens might be the most cost-effective unit in the game as they are comparable to armoured sergeants but come from cities (free garrison) and are to obtain and retrain easily.
    I prefer desert archers to nubians because they are easier to recruit and their stats are almost the same.

    Concerning cav it's all kinds of mamluks. Mamluk archers will be first in the campain and are in fact good allround cav, suited for harasing and disrupting enemy lines, flanking maneuvers and persecuting fleeing enemies. Be sure tough to switch to melee when they are fleeing or otherwise they will shoot the enemy in the back and kill them insteadof making prisoners. And your general will become really dreadful (not )

    So while the Egyptians don't have the best unit roster they are quite good at fighting the Mongols as they field lots of spears and good cav units.
    I think the developers made Egypt a bit weak after the much overpowered Eggies in R:TW. Instead they overpowered the Turks somewhat

    Finally, Egypt is all about gaining local superiority on the battlefield through your cavalry and routing the unit as quickly as possible then go on to the next one. In this context, Naphta guys are always useful, too.

  3. #3
    Guardian of the Fleet Senior Member Shahed's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Just about to start an Egyption Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by shaun100
    What units would make up a good full stack?
    What's your playing style ? Do you always want full stacks ? With Egypt you can get away with a lot less and win, cheaper.

    1st Royal Mamluk Army
    1 BodyGuard
    1 Royal Mamluk
    8 Mamluk Archers
    6 Desert Cavalry
    4 Mamluks

    Deployed as:

    CombatGroup Center
    1st CORPS
    1 BodyGuard
    1 Royal Mamluk
    2nd CORPS
    4 Desert Cavalry

    Reserves
    Reserve CORPS
    2 Desert Cavalry

    CombatGroup Right
    3rd CORPS
    2 Mamluk Archers
    1 Mamluk
    4th CORPS
    2 Mamluk Archers
    1 Mamluk

    CombatGroup Left
    5th CORPS
    2 Mamluk Archers
    1 Mamluk
    6th CORPS
    2 Mamluk Archers
    1 Mamluk

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    Last edited by Shahed; 05-06-2007 at 16:56.
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    Guest Gaius Terentius Varro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Just about to start an Egyption Campaign

    1 general
    19 hashashim
    Pwned

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    Guardian of the Fleet Senior Member Shahed's Avatar
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    Typing from the Saddle Senior Member Doug-Thompson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Just about to start an Egyption Campaign

    Sinan's given the definative answer already, but here's a little elaboration.

    1. The Malmeluk Archer is a very good double duty unit. It uses a mace in melee and can, therefore, fare very well in melee. It is expensive, but excellent. Charge with them, but don't charge, withdraw and charge again like other cavalry. Keep them in melee and don't let your opponents go and "re-charge" against you, either.

    2. I like Arab Cavalry, which are very similar to mailed knights but extremely cheap, at least by comparison. Again: charge, get in melee and stay there.

    3. Somebody should mention Desert Archers, which are some of the best archers in the game. Now that the shield bug is fixed, they are even less vulnerable to melee attack, too.

    4. Toe-to-toe, hack and slash infantry is not the Egyptian style. The Egyptian style is cavalry. Beyond that, the way to fight with Egyptian infantry is to deploy where you have a height advantage and bury your opponent with missiles. Saracen infantry should get a charge off and hold long enough for Kurdish Javelinmen and desert archers to have an effect. Concentrate missile fire and break the morale of one unit, then let that effect the morale of the others. Hopefully, you'll start a chain reaction.
    "In war, then, let your great object be victory, not lengthy campaigns."

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    Guardian of the Fleet Senior Member Shahed's Avatar
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    Talking Re: Just about to start an Egyption Campaign

    Good points.

    I don't think mine is definitive, just an example. For instance I've used no camels. I was going to post more army examples but I got distracted with Photoshop, and still am. What do you think the ideal Egyptian army is Doug ? I know that's hard to tell because it all depends on the mission objective, terrain etc. Supposing you could choose ONE, which one would you choose and why ? I'd also love to see some of your army setups. You are the definitive Egyptian expert here.

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    Last edited by Shahed; 05-06-2007 at 19:11.
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    Guest Gaius Terentius Varro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Just about to start an Egyption Campaign

    OK I was serious: since the Shield bug got fixed the assassins are the most overpowered units EVA... It's not evident 1 vs 1 cos the other unit will wrap itself around it and get bonuses but presenting a 3 man deep front of assasin units pwns chivalric knights and such. I usually walk (not run) them casually into a citadel and assault all units on the way to the center taking walls and ripping through plate units and General's bodyguards (Yes 9 defence skill really helps) taking at most 30% in casualties of which about half heals afterwards. On the battlefield i use 5 archer units with a 3 man deep front of assassins in front of then (invisible). They never tire have insane morale and should be nerfed.

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    Guardian of the Fleet Senior Member Shahed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Just about to start an Egyption Campaign

    Points taken.
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    Master Procrastinator Member TevashSzat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Just about to start an Egyption Campaign

    IMO, good horse archers and micromanagement will beat most armies out their especially against the ai so get a general, around 14 mamuluk archers and 5 of the heaviest cavalry you can find. Even if you opponents have some serious infantry like JHI, no infantry line can withstand a massive 10 unit charge after being whittled down by horse archers for a while.
    "I do not know what I may appear to the world; but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the seashore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me." - Issac Newton

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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Just about to start an Egyption Campaign

    Don't forget about the Ghazi's! Stock up on these troops whenever you get a chance. They are excellent for a first wave, with some halberd milita behind. And they're extremely cheap too.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  12. #12

    Default Re: Just about to start an Egyption Campaign

    I've found Sudanese Tribesmen to be useful in the early game as well. I haven't played as Egypt yet but I recruited some of these in the Egyptian starting lands while fighting them.

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    Typing from the Saddle Senior Member Doug-Thompson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Just about to start an Egyption Campaign

    Re: Egyptian Army setup

    Supposing you could choose ONE, which one would you choose and why ?
    You're too kind to call me an "expert", Sinan. Anybody on this board could beat me in a live game. I'm just a theorist and single-player. That said, though, I'm going to throw out some of my favorite army compositions because you asked, it can't hurt, and it might start some discussion.

    I can't really limit the "what's my stack" to one. However, if pressed, I'd use #1 given below.

    Also, I like to look at armies that are affordable and obtainable without waiting for a lot of building upgrades. You'll see some decidedly low-tech, easy-to-replace-or-retrain units.

    1. My wide-open, anti-Crusade field army would look like this:

    6 to 8 Mameluk archers
    4 Desert cavalry
    2 bodyguard units. One's a general and the other needs some experience or is too disloyal to outside a loyal general's command.
    4 Mercenary Armenian Heavy Cavalry/Mameluks/Arab Cavalry
    2 of whatever else I can get my hands on.

    IMO, good horse archers and micromanagement will beat most armies out there especially against the ai so get a general, around 14 mamuluk archers and 5 of the heaviest cavalry you can find. Even if you opponents have some serious infantry like JHI, no infantry line can withstand a massive 10 unit charge after being whittled down by horse archers for a while.
    Amen.

    2. My Jihad/siege army would be:

    4 Saracen infantry.
    4 Desert Archers.
    2 Desert Cavalry
    2 Good-quality melee cavalry
    4 Ghazi's (Love those guys. You got that right, HoreTore)
    2 Religous zealots.
    1 General
    1 Whatever else is available

    Saracen infantry survive pretty well under garrison fire. I build two towers, two ladders and two rams. I get the towers started first, pushed by the Ghazi. They draw the fire, but at least one ususally survives. Immediately after the towers get moving, I send in the rams. One goes right for the gate. The other follows closely to a spot just behind the first ram. If one ram catches fire, the other attacks the gate.

    The tower and ladder troops take the walls and the gate. The ram troops break the gate and hold the opening. The desert archers provide supporting fire and, once the gate is open, get up on the gate and the tops of the walls. Once I'm in, I stay.

    Desert cavalry may look like a strange choice, but they do great work against the armored spearmen and knights that are sent to hold the gate after the ram breaks through.

    Once the gate is throughly cleared, my desert archers move off the wall and empty their quivers against whatever's holding the town square.

    When the battle's over, religious zealots make pretty affordable garrison troops.

    3. My garrison army would be
    1 peasant. I don't spend money on garrisons. The exception would be to garrison a town that was under Mongol/Timurid attack.

    4. My anti-Mongol/Timurid wide-open field army would be:

    6 to 8 Mameluk Archers
    6 to 8 Desert Cavalry
    1 general
    4 decent melee cavalry

    I don't get into archery duels with Mongols/Timurids. The Mameluk Archers are used like melee cavalry. They're just able to shoot while chasing the elusive steppe armies.

    I wish desert cav had a better defense. Still, they are the best at killing elephants. They do a number on AI horse archers, too, since those don't skirmish away before my units get in javelin range.

    5. My guard-the-gorge-north-of-Mosul-against-invading-steppe-hordes army would be:

    4 Saracen infantry, in two ranks, in thin lines
    3 to 4 Kurdish Javelinmen
    3 to 4 Desert archers
    4 Mameluk Archers
    4 of the absolute best melee cavalry I can possibly get, including merc elephants if I can get them.
    1 general.
    Add artillery, if gunpowder is available, even if it's mercenary.

    7. My bandit-killing regional army would be:

    4 inexperienced Mamaluk Archers (or 2 MA and two merc Turcoman HA, if money's an issue.)
    2 inexperienced Melee cavalry
    1 inexperienced general

    I keep armies like these in Jerusalem, Baghdad, Cairo, Cesarea, etc. They kill bandits and get experience. If it's too big of a bandit army, they hire some local mercs. If it's still too big of a bandit, I merge two or more of these armies.

    When the units get enough experience, I ship them off to field armies.

    8. My defend-a-river-crossing-in-flat-terrain army against Mongols/Timurids:

    2 Saracen infantry, in two ranks, in thin lines
    2 to 4 Kurdish Javelinmen
    2 to 4 Desert archers
    4 Mameluk Archers
    4 Desert Cavalry
    4 of the absolute best melee cavalry I can possibly get, including merc elephants if I can get them.
    1 general.
    Add artillery, if gunpowder is available, even if it's mercenary.

    Note the relative lack of infantry. Even good infantry dies in the massive crossfire against a steppe army or gets stomped by elephants. The missiles flying through the air in these confrontations have to be seen to be believed.

    See the "holding the gorge" composition for holding a river crossing against Europeans or other Muslim factions.

    9. My hold-out-in-siege-while-killing-Mongol/Timurid horde army.

    If assassins are much better after the patch, my main anti-steppe unit will be assassins.

    Otherwise, the composition here is determined by the fact that the town in question is Baghdad.

    I fight hordes in the field. I don't let them take cities of mine if I can avoid it. It's a hang-up of mine. So Baghdad gets the brunt, if it comes. I've noticed the hordes try to drive other armies off before a big siege.

    Therefore, the defense relies on Saracen Militia, which can be built in a city, augmented by missile units — particularly Desert Archers and Kurdish Javelinmen — produced in the nearest castle — Mosul. I also recruit mercenary javelinmen, which are good against elephants, especially when throwing their javelins from walls.

    10. My gunpowder army

    Don't have one yet: Haven't had a game last long enough. Nothing to brag about, but I'm sure hoping the patch with its slower poplation growth and nerfing of spies for opening gates makes these games last longer.
    Last edited by Doug-Thompson; 05-09-2007 at 00:52.
    "In war, then, let your great object be victory, not lengthy campaigns."

  14. #14
    Guardian of the Fleet Senior Member Shahed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Just about to start an Egyption Campaign

    Very informative and excellent post. Not at all too long... carry on.... if/when you have time.
    Last edited by Shahed; 05-08-2007 at 20:49.
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  15. #15

    Default Re: Just about to start an Egyption Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius Terentius Varro
    1 general
    19 hashashim
    1st Sultans Army
    1 general (preferably the faction leader)
    19 Hashashim

    Deployed as:

    Frontline
    H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H
    Middle line:
    H-H-H-H-G-H-H-H-H
    Backline:
    H-H-H-H

    Strategy:
    Use the Hashashim frontline to batter the enemies front ranks. Concentrate on the middle of their line while the Middle line assault then outer sides. Only use the backline as reserves. Bring a unit in if another is taking heavy casualties. Use 3 or 4 centre units to overwhelm the enemies centre unit. Then use these to head straight for the general. Speed is the key here in this plan but mostly let the Hashashim get into a fighting rhythm then strike with the back line when you’ve killed or routed their general to rout the whole army.

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