A Petition To Reverse Abuse

[Ser Clegane]

I would like to remind everybody again that this thread should not be used to exchange personal attacks.

Thank you

BQ is a liar, and does not do his job.

I take exception at this statement, which questions the integrity of a staff member in a very offensive way.
You accuse, Banquo's Ghost oy lying - I expect you to specify this.
With regard to the second part of the statement - is that your opinion or another "fact"?

Tosa seems to ignore my PMs,

I have to wonder - were those PMs written in the same style as the ones you sent to Backroom moderators?

Also, BG should be punished for abuse of power.

An abuse of power has so far not been demonstrated by what you brought forward. The warning you received was for a violation of our forum rules and the rationale for the removal of your Backroom access has been laid out in my previous post.

Apart from that, I am also genuinely curious about your answer to Kukri's question.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

He chose his name, not me. The post was right after mine and clearly directed at me. Your right, I do not have proof that his post was directed torward me, and he doesn't have proof that my comment didn't mean that he resembled Omanes Alexandrapolites a lot. We can all believe what we like in our happy little world.

My most sincere apologies should you saw it that way Vuk, yet it was aimed at nobody in particular - more at everybody who may have been posting, or thinking about posting, within this thread, aiming to prevent them from causing offence towards you or others. Sorry again.

[naut]

Dear Vuk,

I find it sad that you insulted Omanes, one of the nicest and most helpful members of this board. Whether you meant it jokingly or in seriousness I am little more than appalled. So Omanes there is no need to apologise, (apologising for something they did not commit truly humble you are ).

I can understand you anger at something you find so deep-seated in your beliefs. And I can understand your frustration, especially when you have been insulted in this thread by those who should not be sticking their noises in your business (such as my self, although I promise not to insult you because I cannot/will not cause harm to anyone's person or ego). Stig's and Pannonian's comments were not necessary as they were personal attacks, but you are a mature person so I would think you would have the ability to ignore them and instead ask for their comments to be removed as they are both vulgar and insulting. We have rules and they should be abided by by all, so I am sorry you were offended by the off-topic posts.

Third I would like to state that on the Internet it is impeccably hard to understand all the connotations of what someone says correctly, and this leads to misinterpretation. So although you may not have wilfully or deliberately intended to insult or offend (whether it is the truth or not), your posting style allowed for room to misinterpret and take off-hand.

1) From where did you obtain the English translation of the Qur'an verses you quoted?

In response to KukriKhan I would also like to know where you garnered an English translation. As I have my own copy of the Qur'an right here, and I'd be quite happy to cross check any references made.

I understand what you mean about Christians/race etcetera as I have lurked through numerous threads involving such topics and seen my own religion torn to shreds and it saddens me. However, it is up to the mods to determine what goes, not members. And if that is the case I will avoid those threads, and use my own discretion as to where I place my feet. I trust the mods, to do their jobs and I would follow their instructions even if I didn't agree because in the long run they have experience and knowledge, and they will be even-handed even if you think otherwise. They only step-in when they believe the situation is dire. So I find it as a personal blow to every member of this great community when you accuse the staff. If you wish to do so please make it private, clear and polite.

When emotions and opinion is involved it is always hard to stay detected and impassive, which is entirely understandable. And it does not help when those around you are not. But you are a smart guy, I've seen that with your modding ability etcetera, so I really thought you'd be able to do so. I think maybe this thread should be scraped and you can start all over again, but this time without people being allowed to fling insults at you and you respond with the facts clearly stated and without sarcasm.

Rythmic

[Vuk]

Vuk, you addressed the Admins, not Moderators like me, so I'll stay out of your argument over details.

A point of order:


No one knew that except you and staff. Warnings and access details are kept private here.

That is why I was addressing admins! Duh!

I am curious about 2 things:

1) From where did you obtain the english translation of the Qur'an verses you quoted?

Unless you are a speaker/reader of Arabic, I assume you used someone else's translations, and forgot to give credit when you posted. (NOTE: if it's a 'hate site' it would be better to PM me a link, rather than publicly post it here).

From a hardcover English translation that I got from my local library. Would you like me to PM the PIN #? Or perhaps the colour of the underwear that the guy who translated it was wearing?
Oh yeah, and for your info: I do not visit hate sites. I do not hate muslims. Some of my best friends are muslims and we discuss islam AND Christianity together. They agree on many of th points that I made, but believe that islam can be a good religion and follow it. (Not caring to take literally the passages that order them to smite off the body parts of disbelievers and cover them in molten metal) They on the other hand disagree with Christianity and many things that Christians have done. I agree with them that many of the things that Christians have done hae been bad, believe Christianity to be the true Religion and God to be the true God, and do not believe that things people claiming to be Christians have done is a good way to judge Christianity. In this way we can all get along, speaking our opinion (founded in truth, not hate like many members of the Org), and still remaining friends. This is something I have NOT seen on the Org. I guess I am lucky to have civilised friends.

2) Why do you come back to the Org?

Because it is my all time favorite site. I like the Org, like most of the people on it, like most of the atmosphere. It is a good place, and I think that if I stopped coming here, I would have to give up playing TW.

In the face of such opposition, what motivates you to return? Love of a good fight? To show heathens the errors of their ways? I'm really, genuinely curious about that.

I don't like a fight. My point was to have an intelligent discussion. A member of the forums was trying to make a point, and the other one was calling it hate. I provided facts to show that the first member was right. I was not trying to "repremand" anyone, or show anyone "the error of their ways", but trying to have an intelligent discussion - something I thought possible on the Org. I admit that I did get a little hot headed and phrase some of my sentences sarcastically, but till I had been acussed of all kinds of things.

Some guys try out a vid-game fan site, don't like what they see, and just remove the link from their bookmarks. Others like the place and stick around. A few meet opposition, and fight like banshees about their bad treatment for days/weeks/months. I don't understand that last group. Maybe you can help me to.
I should not have met "opposition" for stating my opinion and supporting it with facts on a thread devoted to religious discussion. That doesn't say much for the Backroom.

Vuk

[naut]

detected

Spelling should be detached.

[KukriKhan]

From a hardcover English translation that I got from my local library. Would you like me to PM the PIN #? Or perhaps the colour of the underwear that the guy who translated it was wearing?...

Heh. Sometimes you just crack you up, huh? :)

Thanks, but the usual citation would be better; you know: Title, Author, Publisher, date.

I meant no disrespect with reference to a 'hate site'; I thought maybe your quoted material was from an online source. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Vuk]

I returned the book several weeks ago. I didn't know you'd ask me for that info. I can get it out again, but I do not think it will matter as the koran is the koran, and I dare say that what one koran says, another will.
I will get it out next time I go to my local library. (Right now I have finals, so it may not be for a week or so.)
I will spend the next few minutes answering the other posts that I did not have time to before.

Vuk

[caravel]

From my perspective, having not seen the thread in particular and not being a regular back room reader/poster anyway, it seems that the original issue is now largely irrelevant, and that successive readers of this thread will base their views on Vuk's attitude within this particular thread itself, and not on the thread/incident in question.

It seems to me Vuk, that you have, shall we say, a "talent" for getting yourself into scrapes, through your overly direct and unsubtle approach to particular issues. It also seems that after getting into these situations you will almost "fight to the death" in trying and justify yourself and seemingly wriggle your way out again - instead of backing down and admitting your error. You constantly try to point out the inconsistency in the justice dealt out here at the .org, yet you seem oblivious to the glaring inconsistencies in your own comments. When these are are pointed out you, you will begin the word for word post post dissection and demolition process, which is the mark of a bad debater. Jumping on your opponent's posts in a piecemeal form, trying to dissect and discredit sentence by sentence or even word for word where possible. This in itself is not endearing and you have shown countless examples of it in this very thread.

Your comment about Muhammed being an 'animal' is a classic example of inconsistency. You intended this in a derogatory way, I think 99.999% of orgahs can work that one out, yet you have now backtracked and tried to explain this as:

Muhammed is an animal! Your an animal! Your grandmother was an animal! Tosa is an animal! Even the sexy Vuk is an animal!! All humans are animals! It is science! What school did you graduate exactly?

You seem to be overly obsessed with "legality" of your comments, and not how your comments are actually perceived. There is no sense in "getting away" with posting something offensive simply because you can explain it away later in that fashion. That does not remove the original insult or the offence and it doesn't leave anyone any more convinced.

[Vuk]

My most sincere apologies should you saw it that way Vuk, yet it was aimed at nobody in particular - more at everybody who may have been posting, or thinking about posting, within this thread, aiming to prevent them from causing offence towards you or others. Sorry again.

Omanes, my comments were obviously in jest, I do not see how they could have been taken any differently. I have no quarrel with you and don't remember ever having one. I am sorry if I made you believe that such exists between us. Whenm there is a subject that I am hot on, I vent by resorting to humor. :P Such as my defense of my use of animal (while I still do not officially deny that I meant it in an inoccent way, I am just talking about my WAY of defending it. ;)).

I like the ORG (and most Orgahs), and generally try to avoid any trouble. (though if someone throws it into my face, I somtimes throw it back ) I certainly do not make it a habit of randomly starting fights with members who post in my thread. ;)

Sorry that I was taken the wrong way, and I will say now that much of what I say on the Org is in jest, so don't jump at everything I say. ;) Just so you know. ;)

Vuk

[caravel]

Please may I request that you calm down and refrain from transforming this thread into a hostile environment. Please may I request that you relax and wait for TosaInu/Ser Clegane/somebody else with satisfactory authority to deal with this matter. Thanks.

In case you haven't noticed, my post was to the admins, and the first reply was a regular member telling me to piss-off!! I am turning it into a hostile environment?!! No wonder you chose your name as you did!

The fact is, that this comes across as a base personal attack and, whatever your intentions were, it will be viewed as a deliberate personal attack by other readers of this thread. Omanes did not attack you in any shape or form, his post was aimed at the thread in general. Again, this kind of attitude is not endearing you to anyone.

[Vuk]

From my perspective, having not seen the thread in particular and not being a regular back room reader/poster anyway, it seems that the original issue is now largely irrelevant, and that successive readers of this thread will base their views on Vuk's attitude within this particular thread itself, and not on the thread/incident in question.

Ok, let me start with a point by point disection. As a matter of fact, I will skip my usual chronilogical order and tackle Point By Point Disection (PBPD) right here. I never us PBPD unless I disagree with every point being made (or at least all the ones I comment on). It is not a sign of a bad debator, but a thorough one. If I can some my reply up in a sentence at the end, I will do so, but usually the posts I am replying to are so flawed that they require each point to be addressed individually...yours for instance .

The original thread is what I am arguing, and a don't give a duck's flat rahi (no, before you frantically search, this is not a swear, a vulgarity, or a sexual reference ) about what people think of my attitude in this thread. I have displayed a very bad attitude in this thread (bet ya didn't think you'd get me to admit that, eh?). It is in responce to months of injustice committed against me, and as long as I don't break any rules, I don't care if my attitude is bad here. This is my rave thread in a sense. (one that hopefully will bring some attention from the admins and get them to fairly judge my case) My attitude here has nothing to do with the thread in question. The thread is in question because it is important! It is WHAT is important, or more specifically, the injustice done to me because of my thread.

It seems to me Vuk, that you have, shall we say, a "talent" for getting yourself into scrapes, through your overly direct and unsubtle approach to particular issues.

Yes, I am very direct and very unsubtle. I am that type of person. If someone doesn't like me, I would rather they tell me and me and him have an understanding than to have him go on pretending to be my friend. I have views, others have views. There is no need to dislike each others over their views, but if someone wants to dislike me, I will dislike them right back. Is it that people don't like my "unsubtle" (ness?) or that they don't like my honesty?

It also seems that after getting into these situations you will almost "fight to the death" in trying and justify yourself and seemingly wriggle your way out again - instead of backing down and admitting your error.
When I am right, I usualy will not back down. That is not a bad thing. The only reason I have ever stuck to something that I have been at error with is when I needed to to show a point. A certain one that I have recently made (but will not name, thoughan animal reference is floating through my mind) was to demonstrate the same pigheaded lying that was made by two other members, and to show how ridiculous some of the accusations (in which my words were horribly twisted) made against me were. Also, I was feeling like spreading a little humor. :P
You constantly try to point out the inconsistency in the justice dealt out here at the .org, yet you seem oblivious to the glaring inconsistencies in your own comments.
There have been inconsistencies in my comments, but I have been the first to point them out. The "justice" (though I am not sure that that is a good word for it) on the Org is horribly biased. I say that now, and will continue to unless changes are made.
When these are are pointed out you, you will begin the word for word post post dissection and demolition process, which is the mark of a bad debater. Jumping on your opponent's posts in a piecemeal form, trying to dissect and discredit sentence by sentence or even word for word where possible. This in itself is not endearing and you have shown countless examples of it in this very thread.

Already covered this up above.

Your comment about Muhammed being an 'animal' is a classic example of inconsistency. You intended this in a derogatory way, I think 99.999% of orgahs can work that one out, yet you have now backtracked and tried to explain this as:

I find it hard to believe that .00001% of the Org could not see the humor in many of the comments I made about that. I did not expect for more than half to get the meaning behind it. I don't think that you did.

You seem to be overly obsessed with "legality" of your comments, and not how your comments are actually perceived. There is no sense in "getting away" with posting something offensive simply because you can explain it away later in that fashion. That does not remove the original insult or the offence and it doesn't leave anyone any more convinced.

I proved that what I said was fact and not insult (thought the sarcastic way I worded several phrases was meant to be a little more than a tad insulting), so I was accused of legal transgressions. That is why I defend them. Many Orgahs say this that just fall inside legality, but are highly insulting and get away with it. That is a big part of this discussion. It is not about me, but about the justice on the Org (with an emphasis on a single thread), and so completely relevant.

Cheers,
The Vukinator

[Vuk]

The fact is, that this comes across as a base personal attack and, whatever your intentions were, it will be viewed as a deliberate personal attack by other readers of this thread. Omanes did not attack you in any shape or form, his post was aimed at the thread in general. Again, this kind of attitude is not endearing you to anyone.

Again, I do not give a duck's platinum pinky if my posts here "endear" me to anyone. I have a reason for posting here, and it is to reverse abuse (as you would know if you read the title of the thread) and not to make tea time friends.

As for my comment, I meant it in a humorous way (as I already explained and am getting tired of doing so) and I am sorry that it was taken out of context. I come from the back streets with a bunch more worthless "niggers" that you would never care you white collar poncho about, so that is the way I talk. I am sorry if you don't like it, I know no other way to talk. If you can't realize that I was joking, then please HANG UP and try again.

Vuk

[Tribesman]

I returned the book several weeks ago.

Isn't it funny that you can quote a book that you do not have , yet couldn't quote the bible because you didn't have one

[Ser Clegane]

Some (probably final) comments on this whole issue to provide some additional perspective.

Yesterday, while the discussion in this thread was running a new account has been opened under the username Muhammad

This new account was (ab)used to spam the Entrance Hall with several posts that were obviously meant to slander the religion of other patrons (the comments in the profile alone should emphasize this point).
After several warnings the account was temprarily banned and can currently not be used to make further posts.
Given the timing of the posts of this account and the content of posts and profile which are in line with the posts that received the warning we are discussing here I, personally, come to the conclusion the the starter of this thread wanted to give another example of this:

I was rationally discussing religion using fact, not flaming or insulting.

So to summarize:
1) A patron gets warned for making offensive and slandering posts and subsequently gets his Backroom access removed.
2) The patron contests the warning, asserting that he is not insulting or flaming - just stating "facts" and the "truth"
3) The patron is questioning the integrity of a staff member by accusing him of lying and abusing his power - accusations that have not been backed up, even after being asked for it
4) While the discussion is going on a second account starts to spam the EH with offensive posts.

I think I have seen enough to feel comfortable with the decision to keep the access of the thread starter to the Backroom blocked.
The Muhammad account will be permanently blocked - further steps are under consideration (e.g., transferring any awards and warning points the Muhammad account accumulated to the primary account of the user as good housekeeping would demand).

Thank you

I hope at least some people enjoyed this soap opera

[Vuk]

I am off to class now. I will reply to this when I am back. There is something I have to add to this thread that you may want to hear, so perhaps you should keep it open for a little while longer.

Vuk

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Vuk, I have tried to avoid stating this previously - the inability to edit posts in this forum has prevented me mostly as, if I were to later decide that it was a bad idea I would not be able to edit it out. I'm sorry to inform you of this matter, but I think that is may be something which you may wish to take note of.

This may sound obvious, and I apologise if it insults you, yet, on the internet, when posting, nobody can see your facial expressions, your tone of voice nor can they interpret your body language. This means that the people reading your posts cannot always interpret them the way you meant them to be interpreted. This means that certain jokes, here the word "joke" means something that is not supposed to be, through your eyes, taken too seriously or may have a double meaning, could be interpreted as being serious. This can conclude in warnings, bans and other such nasty measures which are not exactly positive in your eyes, as demonstrated within this thread.

So, may I suggest that you imagine that all your posts are taken for their literal meaning, everything is taken seriously, and before calling somebody/someone any names, you consider what their multiple meanings may be, should they have any to avoid any offence that may be caused towards others.

My sincere apologies for pointing this matter out.

BTW, TosaInu, if you think this is a little harsh or incorrect please may I request that you remove it. Thanks.

[caravel]

Ok, let me start with a point by point disection. As a matter of fact, I will skip my usual chronilogical order and tackle Point By Point Disection (PBPD) right here. I never us PBPD unless I disagree with every point being made (or at least all the ones I comment on). It is not a sign of a bad debator, but a thorough one. If I can some my reply up in a sentence at the end, I will do so, but usually the posts I am replying to are so flawed that they require each point to be addressed individually...yours for instance .

The last post you made is not an example of your usual demolition and dissection, let me make that clear. A point per point reply is very different to a word for word and sentence for sentence dissection. This has been your approach through this thread. You have siezed on a particular point and attacked it with ridicule and derision, due to lacking any solid argument.

The original thread is what I am arguing, and a don't give a duck's flat rahi about what people think of my attitude in this thread. I have displayed a very bad attitude in this thread. It is in responce to months of injustice committed against me, and as long as I don't break any rules, I don't care if my attitude is bad here. This is my rave thread in a sense. (one that hopefully will bring some attention from the admins and get them to fairly judge my case) My attitude here has nothing to do with the thread in question. The thread is in question because it is important! It is WHAT is important, or more specifically, the injustice done to me because of my thread.

So in fact you don't actually care what fellow orgahs think of your conduct here at the .org? It may be news to you, but the .org is in fact an online community and if you couldn't care less about other orgahs opinions then debate is largely redundant as someone that care nothing for others' opinions is not open to debate, and you need to look again at the reasons as to why you're here. The orgahs are what makes the .org, no orgahs, no .org. You replied to Kukrikhan that you are still here because "Because it is my all time favorite site. I like the Org, like most of the people on it, like most of the atmosphere. It is a good place, and I think that if I stopped coming here, I would have to give up playing TW.", yet you couldn't give a damn about how you are viewed by your fellow orgah, and you feel that there is no justice here?

Your next statement is yet again to make excuses, citing "months of injustice" against you. If you hope to grab the attention of admins, think again. Attention seeking threads from attention seekers are rarely attended to in a forum such as this. You probably won't get what you want.

Yes, I am very direct and very unsubtle. I am that type of person. If someone doesn't like me, I would rather they tell me and me and him have an understanding than to have him go on pretending to be my friend. I have views, others have views. There is no need to dislike each others over their views, but if someone wants to dislike me, I will dislike them right back. Is it that people don't like my "unsubtle" (ness?) or that they don't like my honesty?

Being direct and unsubtle does not equate to being disliked. I doubt anyone dislikes you for your views, but it may be that your attitude could cause some friction. It also gives you a difficult time here at the .org with these kinds of issues arising.

When I am right, I usualy will not back down. That is not a bad thing. The only reason I have ever stuck to something that I have been at error with is when I needed to to show a point. A certain one that I have recently made (but will not name, thoughan animal reference is floating through my mind) was to demonstrate the same pigheaded lying that was made by two other members, and to show how ridiculous some of the accusations (in which my words were horribly twisted) made against me were.

But how can you be sure that you are always right? An argument or debate usually consists of two or more people, each believing that they are in the right. They cannot all be in the right, and at the same time all hold opposing views, only one of them can be.

The "justice" (though I am not sure that that is a good word for it) on the Org is horribly biased. I say that now, and will continue to unless changes are made.

If the justice here is so "injust" then you can vote with your feet and leave. When in a similar situation myself in the past at another forums, I did just that.

I find it hard to believe that .00001% of the Org could not see the humor in many of the comments I made about that. I did not expect for more than half to get the meaning behind it. I don't think that you did.

When your humour is religionist or racist, then it is often not perceived as humour. Also what is funny in one particular culture is far from funny in another culture. As the .org is on an international scale, this is something that every orgah needs to be aware of.

I proved that what I said was fact and not insult (thought the sarcastic way I worded several phrases was meant to be a little more than a tad insulting), so I was accused of legal transgressions. That is why I defend them. Many Orgahs say this that just fall inside legality, but are highly insulting and get away with it. That is a big part of this discussion. It is not about me, but about the justice on the Org (with an emphasis on a single thread), and so completely relevant.
Cheers,
The Vukinator

I come from the back streets with a bunch more worthless "niggers" that you would never care you white collar poncho about, so that is the way I talk. I am sorry if you don't like it, I know no other way to talk. If you can't realize that I was joking, then please HANG UP and try again.

Vuk

Playing the race card doesn't help your case either, nor does making assumptions on my social standing and ethnic origin (both of which you have completely wrong, funnily enough). (Note: I'm not even going to comment on your use of the 'n' word)

It seems to me that, in reality you're wasting your time with this thread. I cannot see the point in making it public. If you care nothing for the opinions of other orgahs, which you obviously don't which is entirely evident from your undiplomatic and negative approach, then why make your case here publicly for other orgahs to comment on? All of this could have been settled privately by way of PM.

[Louis VI the Fat]

I hope at least some people enjoyed this soap opera

Believe it or not, but I'm thoroughly enthralled by it.

Absolutely fascinating stuff.

[Vuk]

Isn't it funny that you can quote a book that you do not have , yet couldn't quote the bible because you didn't have one

At the time that I quoted from the koran, I had it in front of me! DUH!!


Vuk

[Vuk]

The last post you made is not an example of your usual demolition and dissection, let me make that clear. A point per point reply is very different to a word for word and sentence for sentence dissection. This has been your approach through this thread. You have siezed on a particular point and attacked it with ridicule and derision, due to lacking any solid argument.

Actually, that is a good example of just about every post I make.

So in fact you don't actually care what fellow orgahs think of your conduct here at the .org? It may be news to you, but the .org is in fact an online community and if you couldn't care less about other orgahs opinions then debate is largely redundant as someone that care nothing for others' opinions is not open to debate, and you need to look again at the reasons as to why you're here. The orgahs are what makes the .org, no orgahs, no .org. You replied to Kukrikhan that you are still here because "Because it is my all time favorite site. I like the Org, like most of the people on it, like most of the atmosphere. It is a good place, and I think that if I stopped coming here, I would have to give up playing TW.", yet you couldn't give a damn about how you are viewed by your fellow orgah, and you feel that there is no justice here?

No, I do care. I just don't give a duck's feather if they want to judge me by this thread. As I said before, I like the Org.

Your next statement is yet again to make excuses, citing "months of injustice" against you. If you hope to grab the attention of admins, think again. Attention seeking threads from attention seekers are rarely attended to in a forum such as this. You probably won't get what you want.

This thread is to communicate to the admins. To do that I need to grab their attention. That doesn't mean that this is an "attention seeking thread"

Being direct and unsubtle does not equate to being disliked. I doubt anyone dislikes you for your views, but it may be that your attitude could cause some friction. It also gives you a difficult time here at the .org with these kinds of issues arising.

It is both. I had a perfectly amiable attitude until I was attacked for my beliefs.

But how can you be sure that you are always right? An argument or debate usually consists of two or more people, each believing that they are in the right. They cannot all be in the right, and at the same time all hold opposing views, only one of them can be.

I argue about fact, not my opinion. To give an example (and I don't mean that you believe this, it is meant only as an example)"It is fact that Vuk is black. It is your opinion that that makes him worthless" See? I will argue my opinion that I am not worthless, but I will stick on with my teeth if you try to argue that I am not black. Get me?

If the justice here is so "injust" then you can vote with your feet and leave. When in a similar situation myself in the past at another forums, I did just that.


I like the Org. The injustice of one moderator and a # of members is not going to make me leave my favorite forums.

When your humour is religionist or racist, then it is often not perceived as humour. Also what is funny in one particular culture is far from funny in another culture. As the .org is on an international scale, this is something that every orgah needs to be aware of.

That or how to laugh. "jokes" (very insulting ones) are being made about Christianity all the time. They are "jokes" and ok. Even the mods make them.

Playing the race card doesn't help your case either, nor does making assumptions on my social standing and ethnic origin (both of which you have completely wrong, funnily enough). (Note: I'm not even going to comment on your use of the 'n' word)

I know your attitude and have had to put up with it before it real life. It always came from upper class whites or lower class Hispanics. Considering you have an internet connection, I assumed you were the first (not that I mean to stereotype anyone here, but that comes from my own experience).
As for the "n" word, I am using it as from your thoughts. And you can say it if you want, I don't care. I call my friends "nigger" and they call me it back. If you call me "nigger", I will call you "craka". (that is unless you find it offencive *rolls eyes*) You see, Vuk has a sense of humor. Vuk is not the one who is ultra sensitive. I am a black man, and I do not cringe at the word, yet I bet that many non-blacks will cringe when the see it. Never again accuse me of being sensitive. (lest I cry ;) See! Vuk has a sense of humor also!:P)

It seems to me that, in reality you're wasting your time with this thread. I cannot see the point in making it public. If you care nothing for the opinions of other orgahs, which you obviously don't which is entirely evident from your undiplomatic and negative approach, then why make your case here publicly for other orgahs to comment on? All of this could have been settled privately by way of PM.
I am tired of explaining why I didn't settle it by PM.

You have already made your opinions clear, and there is no reason for you to clog my thread futher. I am really gettint aggrevated by having to respond to all these worthless posts and accusations. I have a very important post by Ser Clegane that I have to reply to now.

Vuk

[TosaInu]

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