Berbers vs Nubians

[Jambo]

Berbers vs Nubians

Anyone know why Nubian's appear later in the Moors' tech tree compared to Berbers? For all intents and purposes stats wise they're exactly the same, barring maybe slightly different bonuses to terrain...

So... anyone?

[Shahed]

Not me, but are you sure they are exactly the same stat wise ?

[FactionHeir]

Could ask the same about dismounted boyar sons vs dismounted druzhina.
They prolly ran out of ideas and needed something to fill the tech tree with

[Shahed]

Also Egypt's succession in archery makes little sense to me, compare Desert Archers and Nubian Archers.

[Jambo]

Nubian archers have maces and 1 more attack point whereas desert archers have swords, so Nubian archers are a modest improvement.

[Shahed]

Oh....k. Thanks.

I could'nt see any difference other than 1 attack point.

[Jambo]

I think there's a mistake with the Berbers. It says in their text they have long spears and can form the schiltrom. However, they only have the light spear and spear_bonus_4. In fact they're the only schiltrom unit that doesn't have the standard "spear" (i.e. long spear) and "spear_bonus_8". All other spear units that can form the schiltrom have "spear" and "spear_bonus_8".

[Agent Smith]

Berbers vs Nubians

Anyone know why Nubian's appear later in the Moors' tech tree compared to Berbers? For all intents and purposes stats wise they're exactly the same, barring maybe slightly different bonuses to terrain...

So... anyone?

I was wondering the same thing for the past week, since I was playing a Moors campaign...before my DVD decided to say "Nope, not going to work anymore."

Nubian spearmen actually have no special abilities. Berbers can schiltrom, have the hardy attribute, and get a bonus in deserts. Nubians are blank.

The only other differences I can think of is their terrain bonuses:

Berber: Srub +1, Sand +2, Forest - 2, Snow -2.
Nubian: Scrub +1, Sand +1, Forest 0, Snow -1.

I think the better question was brought up: Dismounted Druzhina and Dismounted Boyar Sons. There is absolutely NO difference between those two, except Dismounted Druzhina aren't late period units, I believe.

[danfda]

As far as I could tell, there is no difference in the two types of Almo spearmen (just finished a campaign). I think Nubians are more expensive to boot, so it seems like they should have something else, but don't. I just used Berbers until I got lamtuna spearmen...

EDIT: I just realized I called the Moors the Almohads. I miss MTW classic.

[Kobal2fr]

The explanation most people resorted too when the game came out was "huh ?!... well, must help with the unit caps. You get twice as much of these guys as your neighbour(s)". Which is a teensy bit bogus if you ask me.

That said, to me at least, it makes things a bit easier to read on a hectic battlefield - ie. I know that my Nubians are supposed to be my first line, and the Berbers my second line (or vice versa) even when one has charged right through the other and everything has turned into a big pile of (neatly spaced out ) melee.

[Agent Smith]

The explanation most people resorted too when the game came out was "huh ?!... well, must help with the unit caps. You get twice as much of these guys as your neighbour(s)". Which is a teensy bit bogus if you ask me.

That said, to me at least, it makes things a bit easier to read on a hectic battlefield - ie. I know that my Nubians are supposed to be my first line, and the Berbers my second line (or vice versa) even when one has charged right through the other and everything has turned into a big pile of (neatly spaced out ) melee.

Actually, with the armor upgrades, they both look nearly identical.

[andrewt]

As far as I could tell, there is no difference in the two types of Almo spearmen (just finished a campaign). I think Nubians are more expensive to boot, so it seems like they should have something else, but don't. I just used Berbers until I got lamtuna spearmen...

EDIT: I just realized I called the Moors the Almohads. I miss MTW classic.

I miss the Almohad Urban Militia a lot. Now there's an overpowered campaign unit.

It's what I miss in MTW2 compared to MTW. The unique units in MTW2 don't seem to be that unique. Other factions have a unit with virtually the same stats that just has a different name.

[FactionHeir]

Something else that is missing in M2TW is the voices.
In RTW (excluding expansions) every single units, be it merc or trainable had its own unique soundset and would say the unit's exact name instead of in M2TW where basically every unit just says "archers" "heavy cavalry" "heavy infantry"....
It follows this uniformity trend. Maybe in the next TW game all units will have same stats? :p

[Agent Smith]

Something else that is missing in M2TW is the voices.
In RTW (excluding expansions) every single units, be it merc or trainable had its own unique soundset and would say the unit's exact name instead of in M2TW where basically every unit just says "archers" "heavy cavalry" "heavy infantry"....
It follows this uniformity trend. Maybe in the next TW game all units will have same stats? :p

Actually, I liked MTW the best in that regard. I thought it was neat that every faction's voices were in their native tongue. It means I couldn't understand almost all of it, but it was still neat.

Now that we're going off topic...have to get back on topic...

How do you say Nubian in Arabic?

[Agent Smith]

The explanation most people resorted too when the game came out was "huh ?!... well, must help with the unit caps. You get twice as much of these guys as your neighbour(s)". Which is a teensy bit bogus if you ask me.

This made me take a second look, and I think I found a reason for it.

The Nubian spearmen are the only castle spearmen for the Egyptians (unless you count dismounted Arab cavalry). Their only other spear units are militia. So, I think the unit was more designed for the Egyptians than the Moors.

I think it is simply because the Moors and the Egyptians are both north African factions, so the designers just included them with the Moors as well. It might be as easy and silly as that.

It still doesn't explain Dismounted Boyars Sons and Dismounted Druzhina, though...

[Jambo]

For the Egyptians they make sense I suppose. Still, for the Moors, it doesn't explain why they're a tier up from the Berber Spearmen, particularly when the Berbers can perform schiltrom and have the hardy attribute.

I think giving them a +1 attack is in order.

[Agent Smith]

For the Egyptians they make sense I suppose. Still, for the Moors, it doesn't explain why they're a tier up from the Berber Spearmen, particularly when the Berbers can perform schiltrom and have the hardy attribute.

I think giving them a +1 attack is in order.

To make them tier down or give them +1 attack you'd need to make a second Nubian Spearman unit with different tags in the game files that would only be recruitable by the Moors.

Like I said, I think they were designed for the Egyptians and thrown in with the Moors simply because of the region.

[Empirate]

There are a lot of hidden attributes that don't appear in a unit's stats. When last playing Hungarians in 1.1, I noticed Dismounted Feudal Knights actually had better stats than Dismounted Chivalric Knights. And as for Spain, they have two more units almost identical in stats and role to these two! I found DCK to perform better in actual combat, though. I suspect morale, mass and so on are largely influential, and the visible stats are not the last word on a unit's merits.

[Kobal2fr]

According to this site, nubians and berbers aren't equal when it comes to weather :

Nubians are 1 Scrub/1 Sand/0 Forest/-1 Snow,
while
Berbers are 1 Scrub/2 Sand/-2 Forest/-2 Snow

Meaning that while Berbers are better because of hardy and schiltrom, once you move up north and leave the Sahara, Nubians seem to have their point as well.

As for Druzhina and Boyars... flavor ? The Rus roster isn't that large to begin with so...