MP tips?

[Gazius]

Any hints on playing MP? Any recommended units for cost vs men/strength? We usually keep the cost around 12-16k or so, since we're still feeling it out, and smaller battles makes it a bit easier to get the hang of it.

[NeoSpartan]

When choosing the units for your army to play against an expirienced human player you must:

-Prepare for the worst!
-Pray for the best!
-And expect the unexpected!


j/k

[Gazius]

Ok, new request. I'm playing as Carthage, while my friend plays KH, with perfect tactics. What do I use to beat him?!! He uses those greek heavy phalanxes, and NOTHING I have, I've been able to counter. Right now the mnai is set at roughly 49k.

I've been trying to use slingers, and those might do a bit, but between his archer-spear guys he uses, and the formations so that the phalanxes are screened, I can't really get at them. My heavy inf seems to do nothing against him. The elite african phalanx, while it does ok, pays such a heavy price for support and just in general that I can't afford enough to get the advantage. I can't very well send in inf to clean up, because his phalanx is cheap enough that he can have plenty where I'll only have a few. Are the heavy libyan spear guys decent? Should I use massive calvary tactics? Every horse troop I've used has been worthless.

I'm using the SP EDU because both MP EDU's I've used give me some error on unit blah blah blah.

[Ravenic]

Well, is he using the Iphikrates hoplites? If that is the case, i'd recommend encircling them. You don't need to match each of his battalions frontally 1-for-1, but if you have enough troops to pin them, and enough to attack from another side, that should be enough. You could also buy Baeleric slingers to counter his archers, and i'd also bulk up on heavy cavalry, like the Sacred Band.

[Lovejoy]

(Man I love painting these pics! :P)

Listen to Revenic, you need to use your more mobile inf to your advatage and encircle the enemy.

This is what Ive used at many battles online:
http://pici.se/pictures/qDNbWWwCz.jpg (You are the red-ish onces he is the blu-ish)

I hold some light inf in-front of his phalanxs - and I dont let em attack! The majority of my inf, espcielly the heavy onces, attack his flanks. If he moves his phalanxs to the sides, to help the flanks, holes in his lines should appear, this is when the light inf engage.

Meanwhile your heavy cav, toghether with some light inf SHOULD have routed his cav. This is important! If they make it, make some alexander moves and try and rout his flanks.

Now you should ahve him boxed in, between your heavy inf on the sides, light inf from the front and cav from the back.

(Just for fun I made a after picture: http://pici.se/pictures/iRITNBFVr.jpg )

Good luck!

[Bonny]

(Man I love painting these pics! :P)

Listen to Revenic, you need to use your more mobile inf to your advatage and encircle the enemy.

This is what Ive used at many battles online:
http://pici.se/pictures/qDNbWWwCz.jpg (You are the red-ish onces he is the blu-ish)

I hold some light inf in-front of his phalanxs - and I dont let em attack! The majority of my inf, espcielly the heavy onces, attack his flanks. If he moves his phalanxs to the sides, to help the flanks, holes in his lines should appear, this is when the light inf engage.

Meanwhile your heavy cav, toghether with some light inf SHOULD have routed his cav. This is important! If they make it, make some alexander moves and try and rout his flanks.

Now you should ahve him boxed in, between your heavy inf on the sides, light inf from the front and cav from the back.

(Just for fun I made a after picture: http://pici.se/pictures/iRITNBFVr.jpg )

Good luck!

The only problem with this is, that your enemy ussually trys to do the same ;)

[mAIOR]

Lol yeah pretty much.

Now, do you use AoR troops or do you limit yourslef to faction troops.
If you use them , ditch the Carts pike phallanx and use a cheaper unit of Phalanx. The long pikes will give you more time to engage him. Now, you sould complement this with one or two sacred bands (maybe 7 units total. 5 cheapos +2 sacred bands).
For your cavalry force, using a mix of Iberian Lancers or sacred band cav (or if you want to save money, use some Iberi Cursi as they are alright) with some Iberian Caetari or Numidian cavalry (Numidians have less melle valour but do more damage and have more range and carry twice the number of javelins) (maybe 4 units of cav or 5 if you use one elephant). Your cavalry is your best friend here as you can top anything he throws at you and, if you know how to use them, a couple of elephants won't arm you .
For your flancking infantry I say a mix of Elite Aftrican Infantry and Iberian assault infantry (5 or 6 units focus on the Africans.
With this force you can give your friend a trully "shocking" experience.
For light infantry, some Balearic slingers will do the trick (3 or 4 units) :).

If you know how to use them, your elephants can crush his cavalry with no trouble and the combined efforts of your front row units plus your cavalry and your super elite heavy infantry will crush his Isteroi Hoplitai like nothing (they have poor sword stats...). Your sacred bands double as heavy infantry as they pack quite a punch with their swords...

Cheers...

[Lovejoy]

The only problem with this is, that your enemy ussually trys to do the same ;)

Heh, do same what? Ofc you shouldn't let the enemy now what your plans are until its too late for him to start moving his units around.

Though your enemy will ofc learn your stratgie after a couple of games.

[Ravenic]

From what I understand, this guy is just sticking to those same tactics, and likely not planning on doing what I suggested. ;)

[NeoSpartan]

This is what I love about MP you can't use the same tactic over and over on a human player (well unless he is dumd). NOR can you use troops you like hoping they will. (it took me a long time to learn this on starcraft)

It seems to me that this guy needs to KEEP playing MP, record the replays, learn from mistakes, and make up a new strategy. Also, always remember, a Good Plan is a Plan that can be changed when the sh*t hits the fan.

Good luck on MP

[Gazius]

I think it's a matter of pure quality/invicibility. We both use Gold upgrades for both weapon/armor, so I hope that balances it out.

His army composition consists of, on the field.
Epilektoi Hoplatai = E
Sphedonetoi = R
Spartans = S
Erashar [bow/spear guys from Iran] = I
Ekdromei Hoplitai = EH
Toxatoi = T

/W = wide formation

Looking towards me I see.

(R/T/I)/W (R/T/I)/W (R/T/I)/W
S EH EH E E E E E E E E EH EH S
(R/T/I)/W (R/T/I)/W (R/T/I)/W

This is not exact, and in forest battles he'll use some sort of javelin missle unit I can't remember to screen the forest for any of my hidden troops, who get bogged down fighting them, while E will charge in and slaughter. In cities this is modified to include PWNZER divisions, siege artillery. The numbers of each also vary, but there's a very heavy focus on the EH or E.

I've tried a large number of of various hammer and anvil tactics all to massive fail. My phalanxes cost 1200 more than him, which makes a huge impact considering how Our rules work. They are vaguely equal, but the numbers he can field of his mean no matter how good mine are, they will fall to him on a head on phalanx battle. While those elite phalanx pikemen occupy him, I've used nearly all calvary to charge his battle line, but, even with proper use of the calvary charge in 1.5, I have never seen it make a effect on them. A few units will just turn around and slaughter my calvary, making it hard to get away as he brings in some light inf or his Iranian spear mean to make mincemeat of the finest Carthagian and Iberian horsemen. I've had no luck flanking with inf while engaging with phalanxes, as I've been unable to get either encircle him, or else due to the reduced number of phalanxes to occupy him, he can turn reserve ones on me and thus counter the inf charge. So far all my javelin tests have proved useless. Even thrown from the back, they make little impact. I've used slingers, ensuring they have long range and armor piercing, and while they make some impact, I have to provide a screen for them, and by screening them, they seem to just fire into my own backs of troops, rather than the enemy. I've found no slinger troop able to hold their own against Iranian spearmen. The heavy liby-phoenicians and heavy libyan troops have shown a bit of promise, and being cheaper, I may finally be able to make a decent push against him, but again, getting them to deploy and encircle is a luck of the draw, and you have a better chance of aligning entire galaxies than you do getting the troops to go AROUND the spears, if you can even find a edge to encircle. He also will break his phalanx line into two separate pieces, or a couple, so that they can operate independantly, but join together because the screen will hold up my guys long enough for them to make a solid line.

The unit selection absolutely sucks, my cheapest phalanx is still POWERFULLY expensive, and the one saving thing in the phalanx battles is the long pike it seems like.

Elephants on every try have been routed within seconds, I can't get them near enough to do anything, nor can I reasonably defend them until later.

While I appreciate all the help, so far nobody has suggested anything I've found to be remotely useful. We are using the SP EDU, I wonder if this makes a big difference?

[mAIOR]

Well, That army you posted has a great weakness... No cavalry. Place your pike phalanxes (or like I said buy some cheaper ones like deuteroi or Machimoi) on the center just to bid your time (your elite phalanxes are too expensive to field enough. He'll keep outflancking you) and place your more elite infantry on the flanks...
Your cavalry should start behind your heavy infantry.

Well, like this:


PD - phalangitai deuteroi
EA - elite africans
AI - Assault Iberians
BS - Balearic slingers
SB - sacred band
HC - heavy cavalry (either sacred band or Iberi Lancers)
SC - skirmisher cavalry (Numidian or Iberian you see what fits you better... More missiles or the ability to better engage infantry.)

-------BS BS SB PD PD PD PD SB BS BS
----EA AI EA-------------------- EA AI EA
HC SC---------------------------------HC SC

Now, your Slingers will have to cope with his front row of slingers... while your heavy cavalry charges them from the flanks (if they're in wide good for you) you must engage and disengage all the time and don't forget to Alt charge!
Your sacred band and phalanx are gonna be missile absorvers... maybe move them first so he focus his missile units on them...

Don't haste yourself into battle take your time. Your heavy infantry has javelins his doesn't. And your infantry is more than able to cope with his Spartans and the ekdromoi Hoplitai no problem... Your center will have to hold a just the time needed for your superior heavy infantry to rip trough his.

If you don't know how to use slingers, get some Syrian Archers to do their work... just remember to get them to the flanks...

Inovate, try new things :) with this army composition you have the troops to take him. Once your engaged use your numidian light cavalry or the Iberian one to outflank them. unload missiles on the light hoplites backs to see them crumble faster than you can say "Bullseye!".

Cheers...