E.B. recruitment/reforms mod

[Pharnakes]

I know that properly speaking this should probably go into the unofical modding projects, but I thought that it would be more likley to be seen if I put it here.

Basicly I am thinking of doing a minimod that will introduce dynamic recruitment reforms for all of the factions in the game. I intened to do this by "downgrading" to the 0.74 concept of troop recruitment being based on goverment type. As building conditionals are no longer possible in 1.5 this will have to be done by level of goverment, requiring mics to be broken on taking a settlement.

Thus, units that would be avalible every where eg akontistai, will have a low factional mic requirment and can thus be recruited in all areas.

I am not planning to touch regional recruitment except prehaps to fill a few gaps if the EB team dosen't in the next release. However I am intending to complety overhall factional recruitment.


Thus an example entry to the edb for a multifactional unit would be:

Unit a is recruitable by faction b in factional mic c
Unit a is recruitable by faction d in regional mic e with hidden resource f

The reforms would be controled by dynamic, scripted reforms, very similar to the Romani reforms already in place, that would expand the areas that type 1 and 2 goverments cover. This would represent the gradual, as it might be "Helenisation" of the empire's core lands, to eventualy become almost indistinguishable from the the origonal heartland. This is in my opinion bettre than the curent system, as then any type 1 or 2 becomes within a couple of years, a very loyal part of the empire. This problem is especialy prevalent for the Romani, in my opinion, Gaul especialy should not be added to the romani's subjugation possibilities untill much later.

Idealy this idea would be expanded to a vast serries of reforms for each faction, so that any no cultural areas will be type 3 and four when you conquer them, but once the race has been subdued then the area will switch to subjugation.

An example of this would be; as the Romani, you whish to conquer Gaul. The people of Gaul, however, being fiercly independent do not whish to join your empire. When you conquer one area, the people remain defiant, hoping for external support, however, once your armies have taken all Gaul, the people will see that there will be no help and calm down under your rule, this process being simulated by the shift from aliances avalible to subjigation avalible.

The reforms would thus be grouped by culture and race, once you have conquered an entire people then they will become avalible for being more closley bound into your empire.

As building conditionals are still possible for buildings, I am intending to force the player to build msc's (military setler colonies) before factional mics can be constructed in anything except type 1 goverments.

I am prety much certain that I will go through with this idea, with the permision of the eb team of course. I was wondering what the EB comunity thought of it therefore. I am intending to start work seriously with the next EB release, which I asume is fairly soon with the request fot beta testers (that I missed to voluenteer for by three minutes ). Untill the release I am just going to experiment and collect any ideas that people have, the more of these the merrier.



P.S. I know that buliding conditionals are screwed for 1.5, anyone know if they are usable again in 1.6?

[Basileus Seleukeia]

This sounds very good. but this will be a lot of work. I thought of something similiar, but my Idea was just to let colonys recruit basic troops. But that would only help the carthaginains, as all other factions can only build them in areas where they already have acces to their basic units. But it's good for Carthaginians, after all
But I personally think that recruitment should be ignored until the newest build of EB, because it seems that a lot of things are going to change. But the "alliances available" to "subjugation available" thing sounds pretty neat. It's very historical, by the way, so I don't think the EB team will disagree. Well, we'll see

[Pharnakes]

But I personally think that recruitment should be ignored until the newest build of EB, because it seems that a lot of things are going to change.

Yes, thats exactly why I am going to wait for the next EB build before I do serious work on this.

[Bonny]

which I asume is fairly soon with the request fot beta testers

don't get your hopes up too much, we had intigrated many new things, but there are stil many other that need to be done/integrated before the relaese.
From the 0.8 betatesting to the relaese almost two months had passed....

But I personally think that recruitment should be ignored until the newest build of EB, because it seems that a lot of things are going to change.

The recruitment system will stay as it is now, only new units will be added to the game.

[Basileus Seleukeia]

The recruitment system will stay as it is now, only new units will be added to the game.

That's exactly what I meant.

[Pharnakes]

On thinking things through I have decided to devide the world up into 20 regions, which will give a total of 400 reforms (prehaps 800 if antireforms are included) to be done. This seems a hell of a lot but as it should be fairly simple to duplicate them once the basic pattern is worked out i think it is managable. These regions will be defined by cultural/racial groups whoose population might be lossley called a "People," e.g. Gaul, Italia, Hellas, Asia Minor, Syria, Arabia ect. You may wonder why I am telling you all this before I have even started, but the fact is I am desperatley in need of help from a research point of view (I can handle the actual modding myself) as just about all of my knowledge of this period outside of Hellas comes from EB. Any suggestions therefore from anybody who actualy knows what they are talking about would be great. Realy I am looking for sugestions as to which areas the regions should cover (the actual quantity of regions is open to a certain flexibility)

As a provisonal list I have came up with this (numbering from the north west of the map south easterly direction):

1.Britiania
2.Gaul
3.Iberia
4.Mauraetania (SP.)
5.Germania
6.Italia
7.Carthage
8.Ilyria
9.Baltic coasts
10.Thrakia
11.Hellas
12.Lower Egypt
13.Asia minor
14.Skythia
15.Syria
16.Eastern steppe (someone pleae got a better name for this?)
17.Pahlavia (includeds Hai lands)
18.Persia
19.Bactria
20.India
21.Arabia
22.Upper Egypt


see, I've overshot already, but please, plenty of suggsetions as I realy don't have a clue what I'm talking about here. All I can do is apply common sense and my pitiful background knowledge to the matter.

[Pharnakes]

Right, here is a map I have adapated from the decr_regions:

[Pharnakes]

Right, I think I ahve come up with the basic code for an example. This example is for the subjugation of Hellas by the Romanii:

monitor_event FactionTurnEnd FactionType seleucid
and I_CompareCounter Romanii_11_SubjAvalible = 0
and I_TurnNumber > 1

	if I_SettlementOwner Sparte = seleucid
		inc_counter Romanii_11 1
	end_if

	if I_SettlementOwner Athena = seleucid
		inc_counter Romanii_11 1
	end_if

	if I_SettlmentOwner Corinthos = seleucid
		inc_counter Romanii_11 1
	end_if

	if I_SettlementOwner Thermon = seleucid
		inc_counter Romanii_11 1
	end_if

	if I_SettlementOwner Demetrias = seleucid
		inc_counter Romanii_11 1
	end_if

	if I_SettlementOwner Pella = seleucid
		inc_counter Romanii_11 1
	end_if

	if I_SettlementOwner Byzantion = seleucid
		inc_counter Romanii_11 1
	end_if

	if I_SettlentOwner Myteline = seleucid
		inc_counter Romanii_11 1
	end_if

	if I_SettlementOwner Rhodos = seleucid
		inc_counter Romanii_11 1

	if I_SettlemntOwner Kydonia = seleucid
		inc_counter Romanii_11 1
	end_if

	if I_SettlemntOwner Ambrakia = seleucid
		inc_counter Romanii_11 1
	end_if

	if I_CompareCounter Romanii_11 = 11
	
		set_counter Romanii_11SubjAvalible 1
		terminate_monitor
	end_if

end_monitor

This paticular refrom is known as Romanii_11 because it is for the Romanii, and Hellas is the 11th area on the map.

This still needs to be expanded to place the actual goverment markers, but i think this would be the correct monitor, would it not. I would be gratefull for a profesional opinion here.

[LorDBulA]

Little simpler:

monitor_event FactionTurnEnd FactionType seleucid
and I_CompareCounter Romanii_11_SubjAvalible = 0
and I_TurnNumber > 1

if I_SettlementOwner Sparte = seleucid
and I_SettlementOwner Athena = seleucid
and I_SettlmentOwner Corinthos = seleucid
and I_SettlementOwner Thermon = seleucid
and I_SettlementOwner Demetrias = seleucid
and I_SettlementOwner Pella = seleucid
and I_SettlementOwner Byzantion = seleucid
and I_SettlentOwner Myteline = seleucid
and I_SettlementOwner Rhodos = seleucid
and I_SettlemntOwner Kydonia = seleucid
and I_SettlemntOwner Ambrakia = seleucid

set_counter Romanii_11SubjAvalible 1
terminate_monitor
end_if

end_monitor

Your original code wont work unless You add set_counter Romanii_11 0 at the beginning or end of monitor.

Without it if You hold lets say 2 of mentioned settlements You will reach Romanii_11 = 12 after 6 turns.

With mentioned correction Your original code would be suitable if Your requirement would be to hold x=11 out of Y (not equal X ) provinces.
If You need to hold all provinces use simpler method.

[Pharnakes]

Good points, thanks for that

[Basileus Seleukeia]

Phew, looks impressing! But I'm wondering: What if, for example, the Koinon Hellenon conquered Korinthos. Would they have to conquer all of Greece up to Byzantion in order to make it a cleruchy? Or will this be a special case? Like if the Seleucids conquered Baktra. In vanilla EB, they can build type 1 Government in there. How will this be shown? I think that the factions should have some areas where they can already build type 2 government after conquering.
Perhaps if they share culture? But, perhaps I'm mistaken and you have already thought of that.

[Pharnakes]

Yeah I have thought of that and I think the best way to do this would be to ahve homeland goverments unaffected, the place subjavalible script will not affect settlements that already have subjugation or homeland avalible. Thus factions will start off with pretty much all of their curent homelands, plus a few subjugation areas very near to them, and will have to aquire more by conquering entire regions.

[Basileus Seleukeia]

Yeah, that's exactly what I thought of! Nice to see that this is already planed in a high degree.
But Carthage and Rome would be special cases. They both have nearly every mediteranean settlement as "subjugation available", the romans have nearly all of the world in addition. But, it's still a long, long time until the new EB version comes out, so the planing has a lot of time

[Foot]

I'm beginning to really like this approach, its certainly interesting. Hmm... gives me an idea. Thanks, Pharnakes.

Foot

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Right, here is a map I have adapated from the decr_regions:

I'd say:

Kush, Erytraea to egyptian, Di'amat to arabian group.
Cyprus to Asia Minor, Judaea to Syria.
Venetia to Gaul.
Byzantion and Aquincum to Getia.
Eastern half of baltic region to eastern steppe, the rest to Germania, Bastarnae also to Germania.
Baleares to Iberia.

But what do have the mediterranean islands in common with Italia? Messana, Syracuse are greek. Lilibeo is Carthaginian, also Sardinia and Corsica (or are they greek, the latter two?).

What defines Asia Minor? Galatia is rather Celtic. Lower Armenia is rather, well, armenian. Kappadokia is more influenced by Syria, the rest of Asia Minor are greek colonies. I'd transform Asia Minor Group to an eastern Hellen group, with the exceptions named above.

Just my 2 cent to the cultural relations.

[Pharnakes]

My current plan now is to use the following timer for each individual city

monitor_event FactionEndTurn FactionType seleucid
and I_CompareCounter Romanii_A02 <140
and I_TuenNumber >1

	if I_SettlementOwner Pella = seleucid
		inc_counter Romanii_C08 1
	end_if

	if I_CompareCounter Romanii_C08 >=140
		set_counter Romanii_C08subjAvalible 1
		terminate_monitor

	end_if

	if notI_SettlementOwner Pella = seleucid
		set_counter Romanii_C08 0
	end_if

end_monitor

The C08 bit comes from the EB hidden resources system, which I thought I might as well keep, rather than come up with my own.

This script would thus require you to own a settlement for 35 years before it becomes avalible for subjugation. It would be possible though to short circuit this requirement by pacifying the entire region, which will be done with the script bellow:

monitor_event FactionEndTurn FationType seleucid
and I_CompareCounter Romanii_11
and I_TurnNumber > 1

	if I_SettlementOwner Sparte = seleucid
		inc_counter Romanii_11 1
	end_if

	if I_SettlementOwner Athena = seleucid
		inc_counter Romanii_11 1
	end_if

	if I_SettlmentOwner Corinthos = seleucid
		inc_counter Romanii_11 1
	end_if

	if I_SettlementOwner Thermon = seleucid
		inc_counter Romanii_11 1
	end_if

	if I_SettlementOwner Demetrias = seleucid
		inc_counter Romanii_11 1
	end_if

	if I_SettlementOwner Pella = seleucid
		inc_counter Romanii_11 1
	end_if

	if I_SettlentOwner Myteline = seleucid
		inc_counter Romanii_11 1
	end_if

	if I_SettlementOwner Rhodos = seleucid
		inc_counter Romanii_11 1
	end_if

	if I_SettlemntOwner Kydonia = seleucid
		inc_counter Romanii_11 1
	end_if

	if I_SettlemntOwner Ambrakia = seleucid
		inc_counter Romanii_11 1
	end_if

	if I_SettlementOwner Pergamon = seleucid
		inc_counter Romanii_11 1
	end_if

	if I_SettlementOwner Halikarnassos = seleucid
		inc_counter Romanii_11 1
	end_if

	if I_SettlementOwner Trapezous = seleucid
		inc_counter Romanii_11 1
	end_if

	if I_SettlementOwner Synope = seleucid
		inc_counter Romanii_11 1
	end_if

	if I_CompareCounter Romanii_11 >= 13
		
		set_counter Romanii_11subjAvalible 1
	end_if

	set_counter Romanii_11 0

end_monitor

These two scripts will obviously need to be integrated properly and I will post the whole think later.

@Centurio Nixalsverdrus: Yeah, I made that at about two o'clock in the morning and was just trying to get it done, hence the scrambled mediteranean islands. I made the baltic coasts region to represent the area that was not step due to the forests, but was not at all civilized, (unlike Germania).



P.S. @ Foot, I don't suppose you would share just what this idea is with us?

[Foot]

P.S. @ Foot, I don't suppose you would share just what this idea is with us?

Well I can reveal that I've only just thought about it and its for Hayasdan. But thats about all, otherwise the EB Ninjas will get me, and I'm all out of pirates.

Foot

[LorDBulA]

Pharnakes whenever You post code in Your reply put it between markers.
It will make it more readable (like in my previous post).

This script would thus require you to own a settlement for 35 years before it becomes avalible for subjugation. It would be possible though to short circuit this requirement by pacifying the entire region, which will be done with the script bellow:

You overlooked one Very important thing. Counters are not saved in save files.
Every time You load game all Your counters are back to zero.
I doubt anyone will play EB for 35 years at one go.

[Pharnakes]

Right, current plan:

To divide the world up into small areas of 2-6 cities, which would all need to be conquered before subjugation is avalible. Subjugation goverment types would be increaesd to around 100 turns to build, to represnet the time required to assimilate the population into the empire. This I think is a good idea because it will encourage people to use the allied type goverments at first, and only move onto subjugation once the province is safe from external threat, which is historical I belive.

Thus the script runs like this:

monitor_event FactionEndTurn FactionType romans_julii
and I_LocalFaction romans_juli
and I_CompareCounter seleukids1 = 0
and I_TurnNumber > 1
 if I_settlementOwner Ivernis = romans_julii
 and I_SettlementOwner Emain_Macha = romans_julii
 
  console_command create_building Ivernis expansion
  console_command create_building Emain_Macha expansion
  set_counter seleukids1= 1
  terminate_monitor
 end_if
monitor_event FactionEndTurn FactionType romans_julii
and I_LocalFaction romans_juli
and I_CompareCounter seleukids2 = 0
and I_TurnNumber > 1
 if I_settlementOwner Ynys_mon = romans_julii
 and I_SettlementOwner Caern_Brigantae = romans_julii
 and I_SettlementOwner Ratae = romans_julii
  console_command create_building Ynys_mon expansion
  console_command create_building Caern_Brigantae expansion
  console_command create_building Ratae expansion
  set_counter seleukids2= 1
  terminate_monitor
 end_if

This being the scripts for the seleukid sunjugation of Ireland and northern England respectivley. Again any thoughts are appreciated, especialy an opinion of am experinced scripter as to wether this will work or nor.

[keravnos]

Well I can reveal that I've only just thought about it and its for Hayasdan. But thats about all, otherwise the EB Ninjas will get me, and I'm all out of pirates.

Foot

No need for Ninjas. We have a jointOP Dosidataskeli/Thorakitai Argyraspidai force, exactly for such contingencies. Get the job done, plus we have the models for them too!

[LorDBulA]

Again any thoughts are appreciated, especialy an opinion of am experinced scripter as to wether this will work or nor.

Your code looks good but You forgot end_monitor .

Ofcourse You didnt post code for setting seleukids1 and seleukids2 so cant comment on nothing else then correct syntax of Your code.

[Pharnakes]

I think this script would make things a lot easier and simpler if it is possible:

 
monitor_event FactionEndTurn FactionType romans_julii
and I_LocalFaction romans_juli
and not BuildingExixts Ivernis expansion
and not BuildingExixts Eamin_Macha expansion
and not BuildingExixts Ivernis homeland
and not BuildingExixts Eamin_Macha homeland
and I_TurnNumber > 1
 if I_settlementOwner Ivernis = romans_julii
 and I_SettlementOwner Emain_Macha = romans_julii
 
  console_command create_building Ivernis expansion
  console_command create_building Emain_Macha expansion
  terminate_monitor
 end_if

Anyone know if the multiple settlement not BuildingExists are posible, as I've only ever seen them used for one settlement at a time.


Thanks

[LorDBulA]

Do You mean SettlementBuildingExists ?
If so then no, it cant be used as You propose.

Edit: Dont forget about end_monitor after end_if

[Pharnakes]

thanks for all that;

this is the latest model:

 
monitor_event FactionTurnEnd FactionType = Romans_julii
and I_CompareCounter romans_julii_1 < 1
and I_LocalFaction romans_julii
and I_TurnNumber>1
 if I_SettlementOwner Ivernis = romans_julii
 and I_SettlementOwner Emain_Macha = romans_julii
  set_counter romans_julli_1 1
 end_if
end_monitor
monitor_event SettlementTurnStart SettlementName Ivernis
and I_CompareCounter romans_julii_1 = 1
 if I_SettlementOwner Ivernis = romans_julii
 console_command create_building Ivernis "expansion"
end_if
end_monitor
monitor_event SettlementTurnStart SettlementName Emain_Macha
and I_CompareCounter romans_julii_1 = 1
 if I_SettlementOwner Emain_Macha = romans_julii
 console_command create_building Emain_Macha "expansion"
end_if
end_monitor

Would this work do you think?

thanks

[LorDBulA]

Looks good.

I dont know if this will make sense since I dont fully understand Your idea but You should avoid making to many monitors.

You should be able to do it like this:

monitor_event SettlementTurnStart SettlementName Ivernis

   if I_CompareCounter faction_X_1 = 1
   and I_SettlementOwner Ivernis = faction_X
       console_command create_building Ivernis "expansion"
   end_if

   if I_CompareCounter faction_Y_1 = 1
   and I_SettlementOwner Ivernis = faction_Y
       console_command create_building Ivernis "expansion"
   end_if

end_monitor

Or for meany settlements:

monitor_event SettlementTurnStart SettlementName Ivernis

   if I_CompareCounter faction_X_1 = 1

      if I_SettlementOwner Settlement_A = faction_X
         console_command create_building Settlement_A "expansion"
      end_if

      if I_SettlementOwner Settlement_B = faction_X
         console_command create_building Settlement_B "expansion"
      end_if

   end_if

   if I_CompareCounter faction_Y_1 = 1

      if I_SettlementOwner Settlement_A = faction_Y
         console_command create_building Settlement_A "expansion"
      end_if

      if I_SettlementOwner Settlement_B = faction_Y
         console_command create_building Settlement_B "expansion"
      end_if

   end_if

end_monitor

Ofcourse Settlement_A/B faction_X/Y should be substituted by real names in real code. This is just to show template.

[Pharnakes]

Basicly, what I am trying to acheive is a peice of script that will place the expansion marker in two settlements when both are owned by the same faction.

[Pharnakes]

Hmm, just realised that it is not possible to delete the markers, will it affect things if there are two markers presnet, eg expansion and outlying? Will this just mean that you can build 2,3&4, or will the presence of the outlying marker screw it up? (although I don't realy see how it could)

[Basileus Seleukeia]

It could lokk strange but I don't think it will mess anything, because Type 2 governments need expansion, whereas 3 and 4 don't need anything, alliances available is only there to tell that no type 2 can be build there. But i'm not a modder, so you'll better wait until one shows up

[LorDBulA]

It should work without problems.

[Kull]

Not totally sure how this is supposed to work, but it *seems* like you intend to remove the link between units and provinces, which is the primary method by which recruitment works in EB. I can sort of see how this might operate for human-controlled factions (although you will find the idea fraught with unintended consequences, such as the fact that units are recruited by more than one faction and more than one mic), but it will fail utterly with AI Factions, as all their governments are placed by script. Reason being that the outlying, expansion, and homeland buildings apply to the human player only.

So no matter how long a province is occupied by an AI faction, their government won't change (unless you vastly increase the size and complexity of the AI Gov Granting script).