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  1. #1
    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cataphract question regarding availabilty

    Quote Originally Posted by keravnos
    Only two things were created after that, stirrups, and Knight armor. (which many still call an evolution of Lamellar found in Hye sparapet and Grivnavpar).
    Do those "many" smoke much pot, I wonder ? Not only does solid plate have extremely little in common with lamellar and laminate structurally, around the time Medieval monolith steel plate developed most Western Europeans had never even seen either...
    "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."

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  2. #2

    Default Re: Cataphract question regarding availabilty

    Solid plate was well known at earlier times, many examples of that exist. The "knights" that evolved, especially the first crusade, bore very little in common to the cataphracts of 2nd century BCE, but not that much...That comment was mainly adressed at the Byzantine cataphracts and Muslim knights.

    Crusades was a big way for one to get to know the other. Seeing Byzantine cataphracts would also educate them.


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  3. #3
    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cataphract question regarding availabilty

    Earlier monolith plate had had a tendency to be cast and hammered bronze, though. And that had kinda gone out of fashion already by Late Antiquity. Note I'm talking monolith here, not the sort built up by joining numerous smaller pieces by one way or another.

    Aside from the other metallurgical developements that made solid steel plate armour feasible, I'd be willing to hazard a guess the actual metalworking techniques were elaborated off those used to produce high-quality one-piece helmets.

    Medieval Europeans were certainly happy enough to supplant their ubiquitous mail with ideas picked off their Eastern sparring partners (coat-of-plates is thought to have developed that way off some Egyptian designs), but I'd say the true steel plate was very much an indigenous developement; if already by the default condition the Europeans were AFAIK the first to come up with the kinds of furnaces required to produce iron and steel in required grades and quantities.

    The Easterners for their part did well enough "pushing the envelope" with combinations of mail, scale and lamellar - many of which were seriously ancient designs going back to the Bronze Age. Dunno where they got the idea for the mail-and-plates (or "composite", as it is also called) structure though.
    "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."

    -Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

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