Anti-Americanism

[Bijo]

America, O America. This term "anti-Americanism" is -- indeed -- too broad, and it's easy to use and throw around. If a person criticizes US foreign policy they are suddenly anti-American, or they are suspect of being it. Technically / Semantically / whatever fitting word, this is true, but it's irrelevant and misleading.

When somebody criticizes America, the fact is the person is criticizing America: simple. There's no need for using the term anti-Americanism. Just like when people are criticizing Israel, there's no need to use the term anti-Semitism like some might do. Or when you criticize WHOEVER the hell or whoever the hell's actions you criticize.

It's better to look at the simple facts and see them for what they are, not what you want them to be, or what you think they are. If you see a man lying dead on the street at night, and another man is standing next to him with a knife in his hand, then all you know is you're seeing somebody lying dead and another man standing there with a knife in his hand: simple.


Anti-Americanism, anti-Aschmaricanism. Ban the word: its use is unnecessary.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Why yes. Indeed. That is 100% true. But this trend caused us to look at the US through a microscope just to find faults... And we found many.

USA interferes with foreign governments, bullies foreign governments (even 1st world governments). They dethrone kings and rulers "because they are a danger to humanity". How would Americans feel about a foreign army sweeping into their country, destroying lives and infrastructure? It would be fair. America turned out to be more dangerous than Iraq.

I am ranting. I will stop for schnapps...

Universal human rights come before sovereignty.

Indeed. the belief that America is somehow "good" or "special" is propagated by the school system here and entirely false. Just like any other imperialistic modern power, America has comitted numerous murders, thefts, and other atrocities on behalf of its national intrest. Do I blame her? No. But no one should be naive about their nation's greatness or lack thereof.

Where did you go to school? They don't teach the simplified version of history past gradeschool.

And I think you have a gross misunderstanding of what Imperialism means, or are just using it very improperly. To be sure the US has had more than a few problems in keeping itself out of other nation's problems, but Imperialism is not remotely the right term to use here.

We were imperialist during the imperialist era before WWI. We aren't anymore.

[Pindar]

What is anti Americanism ?

nvm, I'll to wait for Pindar's answer to Tribesman's question before commenting

Tribesman asked a good question - what do you mean by the term?

Anti-Americanism refers to a hostility toward the U.S. as a nation, people or distinct culture set.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Anti-Americanism refers to a hostility toward the U.S. as a nation, people or distinct culture set.

Thank you, but what grade of hostility? And does it have to be towards all elements of your diverse nation, or any level of hostility to any one aspect makes one anti-American?

[Pindar]

Thank you, but what grade of hostility? And does it have to be towards all elements of your diverse nation, or any level of hostility to any one aspect makes one anti-American?

See the other thread with the poll. The level is not a concern. It is sufficient to note it exists. Any aspect or all aspects can qualify.

[Banquo's Ghost]

See the other thread with the poll. The level is not a concern. It is sufficient to note it exists. Any aspect or all aspects can qualify.

So any trace of antagonism towards any aspect of American culture, people or state qualifies one to be anti-American? Does that apply dissenting Americans as well - ie, are they self-loathing Americans if they happen to dislike say, Californian culture in preference to that of New York?

That's quite a broad coverage, don't you think? May I ask the purpose of the question couched in such wide terms?

[Don Corleone]

As a Red Sox fan, I suppose I qualify, cause I hate Yankees.

Sorry, Pindar, couldn't resist.

Banquo, I think Pindar is trying to keep the question as broad as those choosing to answer wish to make it. If he attempts to pin down 'American government', 'the White House', "this White House', etcetera, he's going to be plagued with an infinite stream of shades of grey on the question. I don't think Pindar's intented 'anti-Americanism' is anybody that's ever once had a bad feeling about any American or any aspect of America (hell, every last American would be guilty of it on tax day!)

Sometimes the truth is achieved by definining things down and sharpening the focus. Sometimes, it is achieved by leaving things a little fuzzy.

[Tribesman]

Anti-Americanism refers to a hostility toward the U.S. as a nation, people or distinct culture set.

I don't like Coca cola or Pepsi , Root beer tastes like crap , budweiser , miller and shlitz are shlitz , Macdonalds are awful, Dolly Parton is mildly annoying Britney Spears is very annoying ...... as for Michael jackson

So does that count as being really really anti-american or is it just that those things are rubbish in my opinion.

Now as for Goerge Bush , who on earth couldn't have a level of hostility to a muppet like that .

Hold on ....Paris Hilltons weblog appeal was just mentioned on the radio news , add that numbskull to the list .

[Soulforged]

I don't like Coca cola or Pepsi , Root beer tastes like crap , budweiser , miller and shlitz are shlitz , Macdonalds are awful, Dolly Parton is mildly annoying Britney Spears is very annoying ...... as for Michael jackson

So does that count as being really really anti-american or is it just that those things are rubbish in my opinion.

Now as for Goerge Bush , who on earth couldn't have a level of hostility to a muppet like that .

Hold on ....Paris Hilltons weblog appeal was just mentioned on the radio news , add that numbskull to the list .

I think tha Pindar said "as a nation", wich of course puts your examples out of question.

So any trace of antagonism towards any aspect of American culture, people or state qualifies one to be anti-American? Does that apply dissenting Americans as well - ie, are they self-loathing Americans if they happen to dislike say, Californian culture in preference to that of New York?

Again as a nation, bringing California or New York to the front is not talking about a nation, it's more it doesn't even has to be american territory as long as it's american culture and american people.

[Tribesman]

I think tha Pindar said "as a nation", wich of course puts your examples out of question.

No he didn't and no it doesn't

[JR-]

I think there are a number of factors.

One would be disapproval of American policies, which can be fairly heavy-handed, as well as ubiquitous considering the global reach of the country.

Another would probably be lack of contact with the average American and general American culture, meaning that for many their main ideas about America would be based on Hollywood and American tourists, who can sometimes be very annoying and insensitive.

I think another, and probably the most important, is envy. America has one of the highest standards of living in the world, and even the poorest Americans live in conditions many people would consider luxurious. We have an incredibly high rate of consumption, and can throw our weight around worldwide both economically and politically, making us a natural target for those who wish they could live in similar conditions or take pride in their own nation's power.

There are probably more as well, that either aren't coming to mind at the moment or that it would take an outside perspective to recognize.

Ajax

good start.

[Husar]

Its been my expirence in life that when others are critical of someone, something or some nation its usually from a point of envy, greed, or some other negative human trait.

Well, I have a tendency to say bad things about myself, so if I were jealous(I actually am quite a bit, but let me go on), I'd probably say it somewhere(look at the last brackets ).
BUT that's no reason to be anti-american in any way for me, I can ignore a little jealousy inside quite well in most cases, I just don't like nationalistic people and the US has quite a lot of them. I also oppose people from Britain who want to leave the EU because their "oh-so-great-country" would be better off without the EU etc., am I anti-british now?

The reason the US are top in certain areas today is often due to intelligent immigrants from other countries(including my country ), from that perspective, I don't even know why I should be jealous, you should be thankful that we annoy great people here who then go and improve your little colony.
On a sidenote, I'd really like to visit your country some day. It was the greatest and bestest countery I could imagine as a kid, just when I came in contact with so many nationalists on the net(and we germans learn, for obvious reasons, that nationalism is bad) that my opinion changed a bit, but I can still differentiate between the good and the bad.

People who cannot or just do not do that exist on both sides, some US citizens are quite anti-iraqi or anti-middle east for some reason, are they just jealous that the iraqi insurgents are so successful? I think Dubai is probably a great city, just like New York, I want to visit both, where exactly is the problem?

Ok, I don't know what I intended to say now so I'm gonna stop(yeah, humiliating myself again, but don't worry, a descendant of the nation of the great Bismarck won't lose any glory due to such actions ).

Have a nice day.

[AntiochusIII]

The Don brings up a good point over at page 2. When I think of "real" anti-Americanism (a term I fail to define :P) I think of the stereotype of Americans as "Big Blond Loud Rude Texans" (no offense to big people, blondes, loud people, rude people, or Texans) which is actually quite prevalent pretty much everywhere from my experience. It is a curious attitude the rest of the world has at the perception of the average American...may be we can blame Bush on this one too?

Still, when one really thinks about it we Americans (if I can claim myself as such, not being citizen and all) do the same to other people too. The "hairy" French, the "Nazi" Germans, the "aristocratic" British, the "turban/terrorist" Arabs, the "talk funny" Indians, the list goes on and on...

The one key difference to that comparison would be that others think they know Americans while many Americans recognize that they don't really know what foreigners are like. This one I blame on TV in general and the success in exporting what is usually considered "American" culture through such a media; how many movies have you personally seen that comes out of Bollywood? How about Hollywood? Movies aren't real but they feel real.

The disagreement over US policy I wouldn't personally count as anti-American. If we do piss off the rest of the world by our actions then we sort of "deserve" it and it's not their fault they hate us.

Another point: I'm quite amused by the number of our American patrons who willingly prescribe this "anti-Americanism" very quickly to the "envy" category. That kind of attitude sort of piss people right off the bat as well ya know.

[Hosakawa Tito]

Another point: I'm quite amused by the number of our American patrons who willingly prescribe this "anti-Americanism" very quickly to the "envy" category. That kind of attitude sort of piss people right off the bat as well ya know.

Well, if you're going to hate us for what you think you know about us...we have to get some satisfaction out of it.

[Zaknafien]

the problem is that as Americans, we're trained from a very early age to say the pledge, salute the flag, and think we're the greatest and most noble nation on earth, full of goodness and morality and throughout our history we've been a 'blessed' people, from Columbus to 9/11 and beyond.

[Slyspy]

Don, don't confuse stereotypes with hatred or even dislike. Certainly don't file them under the label "anti-American". Doing that you'll only feed the inner xenophobe!

[Pindar]

So any trace of antagonism towards any aspect of American culture, people or state qualifies one to be anti-American? Does that apply dissenting Americans as well - ie, are they self-loathing Americans if they happen to dislike say, Californian culture in preference to that of New York?

Dissent and hostility are not the same. The one notes disagreement the other entails enmity. This does not mean Americans could not participate in anti-Americanism as in some form of self-loathing like you noted.

That's quite a broad coverage, don't you think? May I ask the purpose of the question couched in such wide terms?

Anti-Americanism is a broad topic. The purpose of the question is to see what most perceived anti-Americanism traces itself to and to allow responses ample room to explain themselves.

[Incongruous]

Hmm...
Anti-Americanism, a kind of warped form of self gratification thought up by Americans, so they can feel better about themselves?
That's what it really comes across as.

[ShadeHonestus]

Hmm...
Anti-Americanism, a kind of warped form of self gratification thought up by Americans, so they can feel better about themselves?
That's what it really comes across as.

No doubt hatched by a CIA think tank.

[Incongruous]

No doubt hatched by a CIA think tank.

Meh, I'm not into con theories.
CIA is so 50'S, 60'S and 70'S.

[ShadeHonestus]

Meh, I'm not into con theories.
CIA is so 50'S, 60'S and 70'S.

True, how about the NAACP? In an attempt to make themselves victims of a country who is itself a victim?

[Incongruous]

It's really OPUS CHILDKILLERSFORADAY.

[ShadeHonestus]

It's really OPUS CHILDKILLERSFORADAY.

has legs

[Husar]

the problem is that as Americans, we're trained from a very early age to say the pledge, salute the flag, and think we're the greatest and most noble nation on earth, full of goodness and morality and throughout our history we've been a 'blessed' people, from Columbus to 9/11 and beyond.

70 years ago we did that as well, but it turned out the US didn't like that and stopped it eventually, if we'd try that today, we'd probably be labeled with the N-word.
Once OBL has conquered the US, he will make you stop that as well.
Or maybe the Chinese will.
If you'd ask me, I couldn't even give you the full version of our national hymn, I know parts of it, but that's about it.
Don't even start about the constitution, I might get the first paragraph, if at all.

Maybe Americans are too focused on their own nation and they show that to the whole world and that's what many people don't like.
And there have been reasons for many EU countries not to join the US in Iraq, for the average Iraqi citizen the situation has probably become a lot worse now than under Saddam, Americans may not care about them, but we europeans do, because we are less centered on our own nations. That's of course generalizing, but it's just an attempt to explain the different attitudes in general.

[Odin]

Well, I have a tendency to say bad things about myself, so if I were jealous(I actually am quite a bit, but let me go on), I'd probably say it somewhere(look at the last brackets ).
BUT that's no reason to be anti-american in any way for me, I can ignore a little jealousy inside quite well in most cases, I just don't like nationalistic people and the US has quite a lot of them. I also oppose people from Britain who want to leave the EU because their "oh-so-great-country" would be better off without the EU etc.,

The comment you quoted from me isnt universally applied, I havent met everybody.

am I anti-british now?

why dont you start a thread Husar, I'd be curious to see the level of response in comparisson to this one.

The reason the US are top in certain areas today is often due to intelligent immigrants from other countries(including my country ), from that perspective, I don't even know why I should be jealous, you should be thankful that we annoy great people here who then go and improve your little colony.

Yes, americans come from all over the world. "My little colony" is antagonism and sadly indicitive of your ability to make an argument or have a discussion, however I am not surprised, name calling, put downs and general antagonism is normal reaction of envy

On a sidenote, I'd really like to visit your country some day.

I prefer you didnt honestly, I for one wouldnt be welcoming. Sadly there are millions of americans who would probably make your visit enjoyable.

People who cannot or just do not do that exist on both sides, some US citizens are quite anti-iraqi or anti-middle east for some reason, are they just jealous that the iraqi insurgents are so successful?

Maybe they are, you would have to ask them based on thier expirences.

Ok, I don't know what I intended to say now so I'm gonna stop(yeah, humiliating myself again, but don't worry, a descendant of the nation of the great Bismarck won't lose any glory due to such actions ).

Im not worried Husar, your posts are highly predictable to be blunt, I rather expected this type of response. If its of any solace I do respect the fact that you have an opinion that differs from mine, which your entitled too.

Cheers

[InsaneApache]

Americans can't speak proper English, like what I do.

Examples:

Pavement = sidewalk

Rubbish = trash

Lift = elevator

Flat = condominium

Bumper = fender

Tap = faucet

Bonnet = hood

Boot = trunk

Tom(ah)to = tom(ay)to

Ringroad = beltway

Pot(ay)to = pot(ah)to

Crossroads = intersection

Chips = fries

Crisps = chips

Car = automobile

Ale = gnatspiss

L(ef)tenant = l(oo)tenant

Petrol = gasoline

The list goes on. Another thing, US miles are shorter, US pints are smaller, US tons are lighter. Oh! and US (English) spelling is rubbish (trash)

All these things contrive to make me dislike America.

Mom* made me an apple pie once, it was delicious. So, in retrospect, I'll let you off.

*the Yank one.

[Incongruous]

The comment you quoted from me isnt universally applied, I havent met everybody.




why dont you start a thread Husar, I'd be curious to see the level of response in comparisson to this one.



Yes, americans come from all over the world. "My little colony" is antagonism and sadly indicitive of your ability to make an argument or have a discussion, however I am not surprised, name calling, put downs and general antagonism is normal reaction of envy




I prefer you didnt honestly, I for one wouldnt be welcoming. Sadly there are millions of americans who would probably make your visit enjoyable.




Maybe they are, you would have to ask them based on thier expirences.



Im not worried Husar, your posts are highly predictable to be blunt, I rather expected this type of response. If its of any solace I do respect the fact that you have an opinion that differs from mine, which your entitled too.

Cheers

Perhaps a cooldown might be a good idea?

[Odin]

Perhaps a cooldown might be a good idea?

What do you mean?

[caravel]

Perhaps a cooldown might be a good idea?

Pepsi or Coke?

What do you mean?

I believe he is advising that you "cool off".

[Odin]

Pepsi or Coke?

I believe he is advising that you "cool off".

That assumes a great deal, why am I not surprised?