Formation problems

[Foz]

Also note that your formation problems may go away if you adopt a policy of right-dragging at the target location to set the unit formations. I've found this very necessary, as clicking left or right of the group's center (even way forward but a bit left/right) translates into grouped units turning their line to that side, which is almost never what I want.

If you then need them to run, you can always just hit R (instead of the double-right-click functionality, since we're right-dragging to issue the move command).

[Whacker]

army formations not holding properly when commanded to advance by single click any greater distance than 100 virtual yards

Also note that your formation problems may go away if you adopt a policy of right-dragging at the target location to set the unit formations. I've found this very necessary, as clicking left or right of the group's center (even way forward but a bit left/right) translates into grouped units turning their line to that side, which is almost never what I want.

If you then need them to run, you can always just hit R (instead of the double-right-click functionality, since we're right-dragging to issue the move command).

That's not the point Foz. Formation holding is still pretty horrid in v1.2. I'll grudgingly admit it feels ever so slightly better, but it still stinks. Chasing routers is also improved, but my cav units will still occasionally start to do the 'spread out in a star' but stop after a second or two, and the tend to form these really deep, maybe 5 guys wide by 12+ deep (I play on huge) when doing this. It's annoying, they should maintain the formation that I put them in to begin with, AND they should move in whatever formation I had them in, instead of randomly choosing if they want to do that and picking their own.

Also, per a post you made awhile back, I decided to humor you and do exactly as you suggested, and tried different unit sizes. It doesn't make a whit of a difference really. There's that infuriating 1-2 second lag when giving an order and units start moving to start with. Then, when moving, there's that loveable ... halfarsed effort to get back into formation when moving, this is most notable when in double-time. Also noticed it's much worse when the unit is shooting, say for example as horse archers. Really am convinced at this point that this is how the game was designed to work, to which I can only respond

[Foz]

That's not the point Foz. Formation holding is still pretty horrid in v1.2. I'll grudgingly admit it feels ever so slightly better, but it still stinks. Chasing routers is also improved, but my cav units will still occasionally start to do the 'spread out in a star' but stop after a second or two, and the tend to form these really deep, maybe 5 guys wide by 12+ deep (I play on huge) when doing this. It's annoying, they should maintain the formation that I put them in to begin with, AND they should move in whatever formation I had them in, instead of randomly choosing if they want to do that and picking their own.

Also, per a post you made awhile back, I decided to humor you and do exactly as you suggested, and tried different unit sizes. It doesn't make a whit of a difference really. There's that infuriating 1-2 second lag when giving an order and units start moving to start with. Then, when moving, there's that loveable ... halfarsed effort to get back into formation when moving, this is most notable when in double-time. Also noticed it's much worse when the unit is shooting, say for example as horse archers. Really am convinced at this point that this is how the game was designed to work, to which I can only respond ...

I'm not trying to write off the problem, I'm simply trying to help people play the game in spite of its sometimes quirky behaviors. Some readers may not even be aware that they can drag their selected units into shapes at the target location instead of just clicking, so I took the chance to drop a useful tip that may get many people a lot of mileage. Is that really so evil?

As for the "horrid" formation holding, I'm sorry unit size didn't fix it for you. I still haven't seen anything even nearly as bad as pics you've posted, and I'm really not sure how you do it. Certainly the units don't move in nice neat lines, and they do stretch out a bit sometimes, but to me most of the time the imperfections come off as... how did someone else put it? Ahh yes, "organic." It lends a certain individuality to the men that I like, and that you simply can't get from perfect formations. It would be really great if they would try a lot harder to stick together though: unit's occasionally look more like buckshot patterns on practice targets than they do trained military units.

To the 1-2 second order lag, try to be realistic. You're a general giving orders to troops. You're even represented by a man in a given unit on the battlefield. How do the men get your orders? Certainly not by walkie talkie. Someone's blowing a horn or shouting at them, and that means it takes time for the men to hear, understand, and react. In fact on that subject, I'm almost certain someone said the lag is worse if your general is further away, and is much better when he is near. If that's true, then it almost certainly shows intent for this to be a feature, mirroring real combat conditions.

[Whacker]

I'm not trying to write off the problem, I'm simply trying to help people play the game in spite of its sometimes quirky behaviors. Some readers may not even be aware that they can drag their selected units into shapes at the target location instead of just clicking, so I took the chance to drop a useful tip that may get many people a lot of mileage. Is that really so evil?

Fair enough, my intent wasn't to minimize your contribution, it's a good suggestion. My point was simply that we shouldn't lose sight of the bigger problem, even though there's a form of band-aid for it in the mean time.

As for the "horrid" formation holding, I'm sorry unit size didn't fix it for you. I still haven't seen anything even nearly as bad as pics you've posted, and I'm really not sure how you do it. Certainly the units don't move in nice neat lines, and they do stretch out a bit sometimes, but to me most of the time the imperfections come off as... how did someone else put it? Ahh yes, "organic." It lends a certain individuality to the men that I like, and that you simply can't get from perfect formations. It would be really great if they would try a lot harder to stick together though: unit's occasionally look more like buckshot patterns on practice targets than they do trained military units.

Believe me, I'm sorry too. I don't know how I manage it either, I never had these kinds of problems in RTW. As much as I say that I'm not that good at these games, that's more modesty than anything. I'm actually pretty good and can more than hold my own, so it's definitely lack of skill on my part. As to the unit cohesion being "organic", again I understand the sentiment but disagree. The rigidness in STW and MTW was a bit exaggurated but it's the engine we had to deal with. RTW was much closer to what I expected, M2TW just took it too far overboard. Somewhere in between but closer to RTW's cohesion would be fine in my book.

To the 1-2 second order lag, try to be realistic. You're a general giving orders to troops. You're even represented by a man in a given unit on the battlefield. How do the men get your orders? Certainly not by walkie talkie. Someone's blowing a horn or shouting at them, and that means it takes time for the men to hear, understand, and react. In fact on that subject, I'm almost certain someone said the lag is worse if your general is further away, and is much better when he is near. If that's true, then it almost certainly shows intent for this to be a feature, mirroring real combat conditions.

Again there's two sides to that argument, it just so happens (SURPRISE!) that I am on the opposite one. While it's true that this is a "simulation" and an "approximation" of battle, there is a certain leeway to both sides arguing for or against certain mechanics. In terms of command lag, I just plain hate it. Realistically speaking, issuing commands in the order of fine-grainness and precision that we can in these games wasn't even REMOTELY possible throughout the classical and middle ages, even with modern technology it's still hard for a commander to maintain tight control in any given theater. Even with a good battle plan up front, and good capable runners, such a level of control was just a dream. As such, I think that 1-2 second lag is infuriating, I prefer to think that when you click to give the command, the game has a sense of... premonition, and knew ahead of time that you were going to do that, hence the troops jump immediately to do your will. Fruity? Perhaps, but it's just how I think.

This has been happening to me since RTW - i've never really noticed it as much in M2TW because by now i just avoid moving my entire army around by single clicking. I now always re-drag groups out into formation separately. Not an ideal solution, but i've gotten used to it after years of intense annoyance.

You know that's interesting you say that, I found RTW's controls to be leaps and bounds better than the old STW/MTW controls. Going back and playing those games after RTW was almost physically painful. While RTW wasn't absolutely perfect, I didn't have as much trouble controlling my troops in it as compared to the new M2TW mechanics and controls. /shrug Guess it just boils down to personal preference.

[Daveybaby]

You know that's interesting you say that, I found RTW's controls to be leaps and bounds better than the old STW/MTW controls. Going back and playing those games after RTW was almost physically painful. While RTW wasn't absolutely perfect, I didn't have as much trouble controlling my troops in it as compared to the new M2TW mechanics and controls. /shrug Guess it just boils down to personal preference.

In general i agree. It's just when i click on a destination for my army, once in a while (actually it seems to happen once every couple of battles) my army's formation will get totally mangled. If this happens and you dont notice it because youre keeping an eye on the enemy army, then you can lose the battle because of this - not fun. At all.

[sapi]

Split off from the buglist.

[Daveybaby]

That's not the point Foz. Formation holding is still pretty horrid in v1.2.

This has been happening to me since RTW - i've never really noticed it as much in M2TW because by now i just avoid moving my entire army around by single clicking. I now always re-drag groups out into formation separately. Not an ideal solution, but i've gotten used to it after years of intense annoyance.