HRE: Reiters Tactics and Deployment.

[Raz]

They're good for mopping up enemy heavy cavalry. Since they've got faster horses just keep them out of range of the enemy heavy cavalry. Light Cavalry with AP bullets + Heavy Cavalry with slower cavalry = smithereens. If you can't micro manage them to keep them out of melee. Just lead the enemy heavy cavalry to the corner of the map etc, while you deal with the enemy's main force.

[Furious Mental]

Looks like the Spanish will be getting "dragoons" (guys on horses with carbines) in Kingdoms. They look unarmoured to me but the description says they have a breast plate.

[Doug-Thompson]

Did something last night I'd never do with normal missile cavalry: Tolerated some friendly fire losses.

Got some real-world work to do this morning, so here it is in a rush.

Reiters are very deadly when micromanaged intensively, but I wanted to finds something more "automatic".

So I set up three lines of reiters in COLUMN formation -- basically three rows of reiters. I set formation to loose. Each unit was only two ranks deep.

Set them up on grassy fields against four units of French Chivalric Men at Arms (foot, sword and shield with good armor).

Turned fire-at-will and skirmish off. Waited until a unit was in range, then hit the on fire-at-will hotkey for all three as a group. After the first rank got a good, solid volley off, I hit skirmish for the whole group. The first line, still reloading, skirmished back and the second line started blazing away. By the time the third line started firing, I had a mass of horsemen looking like they were in a wild West shootout and one decimated, routed men at arms unit.

I suffered perhaps two or three friendly fire losses.

I had to micromanage from there. I'm going to work on it some more, but it's a hectic weekend.

=========

2 Groups of 2 UNITS Reiters

* Each group deployed to a chosen quadrant (Center, Left, Right, Rear) of the enemy army.
* One unit fires, and skirmishes away to reload.
* Second unit approaches and fires, skirmishes away to reload.

Exactly. I tried a two-line formation last night, after the three-line experiment. Results were even better. Wiped out all four infantry units and had half my ammo left, losing only four men.

I'm going to get the hang of this and send you a movie replay in v1.02 vanilla.

[Shahed]

Thanks for the results ! If the replay works, nothing better. I've understood it though. Enjoy your day !

[Doug-Thompson]

Found something that needs careful testing between two human players:

I think skirmish keeps you out of trouble more effectively when "fire at will" is turned off.

As best I can tell while goofing around in custom battles, reiters have to finish their rather lengthy firing animation before skirmishing away. Now, consider the combination of:

1. Short range
2. Lengthy firing animation
3. Not the fastest horse in the stable.

Reiters kept getting caught by the "kamikaze" troops sent out by high-morale infantry before they could skirmish away. When I turned "fire at will" off, however, skirmishing was generally more effective at breaking contact. I could get my reiters away and turn on "fire at will" later.

Now, as I've already said, the best way is not to use autoskirmish at all with these guys. However, not everybody is a big fan of micromanagement.

=============

As mentioned, I like to put three reiter units in column formation and loose, then drag them into thin lines. This results in a "super square." If the enemy is advancing, I let the first rank get a good, solid volley into him, then hit skirmish. This means that since just about every unit has fired in the first rank, that rank can skirmish away without a long wait. It falls back through the gaps in the second line and the second line fires. The process is repeated. with the third line, and everything is blazing away.

Even chivalric men at arms can't take such a pounding. If circumstances had allowed, I would have charged the decimated unit with all three reiters. I was goofing around with three reiter units against four such m@a, though, so I didn't charge.

I micromanaged, turning fire-at-will off, then skirmish, then moved the reiters to a new position. We were running all over the map on grassy fields, but I was easily able to wipe out all 241 m@a for the loss of 11 to friendly fire.

Against an enemy that was not advancing, I probably would have used the units separately in single line formations.

[Doug-Thompson]

Looks like the Spanish will be getting "dragoons" (guys on horses with carbines) in Kingdoms. They look unarmoured to me but the description says they have a breast plate.

That sounds interesting.

[Furious Mental]

Indeed. Looks like some Native American factions something along similar lines too.

Incidentally, I find that the best use for reiters is on the flanks- when the two armies collide send round the reiters round the flanks to lay down a galling pistolade on the enemy infantry, and then charge them in to finish the job when the moment is right. If you try to use normal gunpowder units this way they usually just get trampled down by enemy cavalry but reiters can easily skirmish away. I also find reiters are good for thwarting flanking manouevres themselves- leave them out on the end with the line refused- their range is short enough that they don't distracted shooting at units engaging the centre, but long enough (and their guns powerful enough) that they can inflict pretty crippling casualties at any enemy unit that tries to get around your line.

[Doug-Thompson]

I find that the best use for reiters is on the flanks- when the two armies collide send round the reiters round the flanks to lay down a galling pistolade on the enemy infantry, and then charge them in to finish the job when the moment is right. If you try to use normal [infantry] gunpowder units this way they usually just get trampled down by enemy cavalry but reiters can easily skirmish away.

I also find reiters are good for thwarting flanking manouevres themselves- leave them out on the end with the line refused* - their range is short enough that they don't distracted shooting at units engaging the centre, but long enough (and their guns powerful enough) that they can inflict pretty crippling casualties at any enemy unit that tries to get around your line.

*swept back, like the swept-back wings on a jet fighter.

The flank guards approach is something new and interesting.

=======

Tried the unit out in a custom battle against a Papal army. Let the computer pick the enemy units. Deployed thin lines of Reiters on either wing, backed up by more Reiters. Threw in one line of Mounted Crossbows and another of knights behind those. The enemy chose a lot of spears, some sword and shield units, a couple of mounted crossbows, a bodyguard unit, other knights and even some artillery.

There wasn't time for micromanagement for the Reiters. They routed the enemy mounted crossbows on the flanks, which allowed my units to crush the enemy in the center. However, the short range of the reiters means that they tended to get out of the battle when skirmishing. When the skirmishing stopped, they are so far out of range they have to be ordered back in. That's how I spent the time I could devote to reiters.

==========

2k post.

[Shahed]

I'm going to start an HRE game soon... pistol everyone !

[TheLastPrivate]

From what I know historically the pistol-wielding approach on cavalry i,e, reiters was not all together successful in the end - it was cumbersome and was counterintuitive in utilizing the speed and mass of cavalry. Even dragoons weren't the most successful units although they rock in Kingdoms... I guess its pretty accurate historically how reiters look great on paper yet practicality is an issue.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Hmm, I just used Reiters with Gothic Knights against a standard Mongol stack. Won it in the end, but Reiters didn't look too effective, I had rushed them close to the enemies HA's on the flanks but the Mongol Horse Archers beat them comfortably. Then my Reiters got caught in melee and routed, the Gothics saved the day.

Am I just using these guys wrong, dreaming of the long range camel gunners?

[Rhyfelwyr]

Just fought a full Aztec army under their Prince with an army of 8 Reiters under a captain. Took 180 losses out of 720 men, killed almost all of their 2,400.

I think I'm learning how to use these guys.