'Creative' Assembly indeed... O.O

**Sir-S-Of-TURBO** · 05-11-2007, 09:22

Or is this historical accurate?

If so, please tell me how the hell they fixed the problem with elephants being scared.

Oh and it's a screenshot of the Timurid empires best weapon in Medieval II: Totalwar.

**Foot** · 05-11-2007, 09:49

In fact, as CA has done so many times, I believe that this was tried once or twice. However, CA have turned it into a major unit, disregarding the unique nature of their deployment in history. They did this in RTW with the dog and flaming pig units.

Foot

**edyzmedieval** · 05-11-2007, 09:55

For gameplay, they are a blockbuster. But for historical accuracy, they aren't worth even 2 cents...

**Foot** · 05-11-2007, 10:48

Why is this in here? It seems to have nothing to do with EB whatsoever!

Foot

**Ludens** · 05-11-2007, 10:52

Originally Posted by edyzmedieval

For gameplay, they are a blockbuster. But for historical accuracy, they aren't worth even 2 cents...

Actually, cannon elephants were employed in history according to Wiki. Ironically, there also used to be an article on "Cannon Elephants", claiming that a CA programmer invented them when he confused the Chinese signs for cannon and elephant

.

**russia almighty** · 05-11-2007, 13:31

How accurate though is the elephant unit with the arquebusiers on the back?

**Marcus Cornelius** · 05-11-2007, 13:41

I've always felt sorry for the guy sitting right under the cannon. He has to deal with the cannonball flying just an inch or two over his head, he's probably deaf by now and on top of that he has to control that mighty elephant, keeping it from running amok. Talk about stress from your job...

**Watchman** · 05-11-2007, 14:06

Originally Posted by russia almighty

How accurate though is the elephant unit with the arquebusiers on the back?

I've read the idea was used commonly enough in Mughal India. If skittish herbivores like horses can learn to cope with the noise of handheld firearms, the less jumpy elephants should have fairly little trouble.

And yeah, the mahouts of those somewhat fantastic "cannon elephants" would presumably soon have become known by something that translates roughly as "the deaf and the hairless"...

**Sir-S-Of-TURBO** · 05-11-2007, 14:50

Originally Posted by Foot

Why is this in here? It seems to have nothing to do with EB whatsoever!

Foot

Well pardon me for not posting it on the newgrounds forums but I'd like to hear if this was historical accurate from someone who knows stuff about history.

**Foot** · 05-11-2007, 14:55

Originally Posted by Sir-S-Of-TURBO

Well pardon me for not posting it on the newgrounds forums but I'd like to hear if this was historical accurate from someone who knows stuff about history.

The forum is for EB related material. I mean its in a completely different timeframe. There are plenty of places that could deal with your question, this just seems the most inappropriate.

Foot

**Sarcasm** · 05-11-2007, 15:14

Originally Posted by Watchman

I've read the idea was used commonly enough in Mughal India. If skittish herbivores like horses can learn to cope with the noise of handheld firearms, the less jumpy elephants should have fairly little trouble.

And yeah, the mahouts of those somewhat fantastic "cannon elephants" would presumably soon have become known by something that translates roughly as "the deaf and the hairless"...

Indeed. There various accounts of elephants carrying cannons *to* the battlefield but also some that report them with cannons on their backs. Not serpentines though, more like small swivel guns.

**HFox** · 05-11-2007, 17:01

For carriage only....from pictures of elephants carrying guns in indian artwork...call it fanciful interpretation

...they forgot one thing...recoil....fired once the serpentine and gunner would be heading backwards ...... fast ....dragging the elephant with em!

**-Praetor-** · 05-11-2007, 23:37

Originally Posted by HFox

For carriage only....from pictures of elephants carrying guns in indian artwork...call it fanciful interpretation

...they forgot one thing...recoil....fired once the serpentine and gunner would be heading backwards ...... fast ....dragging the elephant with em!

Not neccesairly kicking the elephant backwards, but only breaking his spine, or causing severe trauma over his back...

Enough to put him on a very baaaaad mood...

**Watchman** · 05-12-2007, 00:09

With that much recoil involved I'd say the structures of the gun mounting and/or the howdah would go first.

Anyway, it's a given even in a fantasy version the artillery piece would be from a very light end, to keep both its weight, recoil, and powder consumption in check. One would expect a thin-walled type of gun designed for firing stone and grape shot (which are light and hence get off with fairly small propellant charges, ergo fairly little pressure build-up in the chamber ergo the gun can be made fairly light), or something akin to the light field howitzers of Europe (designed for firing explosive grenades, which being hollow are light for their size, and "case" shot - a variant of grapeshot).

Also, given that there would be uncomfortably little working space in the howdah, it'd probably have to be of the breech-loading type. While those are quick and convenient to reload - since the separate chambers can be pre-packed and swapped quite quickly - they had some issues with propellant gas leaking from the join between the chamber and the barrel, which would further reduce the recoil... Incidentally this design was abandoned from larger pieces fairly early, but remained common enough in small antipersonnel swivel-guns and the like where the pressure-loss issues mattered fairly little.