Battle field value of the King

**dknight** · 05-10-2007, 08:37

A newbie questions

How's much good in using a high-command King (especially Byzantine's one) in the battle field ?

I can deduct the basic pros & cons as following:

Pros:
Good command and morale to current troop
Strong units at game starts
Royal guards number regenerate

Cons:
Morale penalty when King die
King captured is going to be expensive (does anyone had your King captured yet ? How much do you have to pay ? Can you refuse payment to get rid of a bad King ?)
Can't train other generals

Thanks

**Roark** · 05-10-2007, 10:16

I think you've basically figured it out, but... the primary advantage of using your Byzantine demi-god on the battlefield is the valour bonus he adds to your entire army. Your troops will fight better and stay on the field longer.

Apart from armour-piercing missiles or freak catapult "incidents", he will be almost indestructible on the battlefield, unless you choose to make him do the sword-saint thing and fight multiple entire units by his lonesome after his bodyguard is depleted.

**The Unknown Guy** · 05-10-2007, 15:11

King captured is going to be expensive (does anyone had your King captured yet ? How much do you have to pay ? Can you refuse payment to get rid of a bad King ?)

Around 20k. You can refuse to pay (and he's regarded as "captured and executed"). Better have an heir ready, if you do.

Poor non-byzantine mortals might suffer rebellions or civil wars, as sometimes the influence during a battle is regarded as reduced (or so I heard). On the other hand, small kingdoms, such as Aragon, will find useful that early heavy cavalry which they would lack otherwise.

Also, the king's stats when an heir matures determine that heir's stats. So if you raise the command of your king your heirs will be born with better command

**Agent Miles** · 05-10-2007, 16:36

Even though generals stacked with your Faction Ruler won’t gain stars in a battle (since he is in command), they can still gain valour, which should help them in later battles where they are in command. Here’s some shots of my Danish King (outnumbered 5-1) shredding some Swedish Vikings.
https://s132.photobucket.com/albums/...tMiles/Sweden/
It’s good to be King!

**Maloncanth** · 05-10-2007, 19:21

Note that it is possible in large battles to give your king stars and your better general valor without putting the king at risk. Simply shove the king into the reinforcements pile and don't ever call him out. He'll gain any post-battle stars or virtues but during the battle, your general (presumeably better at his job than the king) will be in actual command.

As for the risks of getting your king captured or killed, it is generally negligible as the AI is not sophisticated enough to pursue an assassination strategy decently so long as your army isn't grossly inferior. It usually only happens when the king happens to be the strongest/only heavy cavalry on your side and the enemy has some lucky artillery.

**Martok** · 05-10-2007, 23:06

To add a note of caution: If you have a large empire, be wary of using your faction leader in offensive battle (invasions). Doing so often triggers the "king is isolated on an island" effect, causing mass rebellions and/or faction re-emergences throughout your lands.

This only applies to battles where you're the attacker. If your king is commanding in a defensive battle, you don't have to worry about this happening.

**Lord Cazaric** · 05-14-2007, 07:59

When me and a friend were playing as the Hungarians and invaded Constantinople, we thought with our overwhelming numbers of spearmen, we could bring down the defending Emperor, a prince and four other units of kataphraktoi (after all, three of those extra kataphraktoi were on their own).

Yet they decimated our army...those extra kataphraktos must have formerly been princes, because they waltzed right through our spearmen, and then they hit with the Emperor and the Prince.

Well, about one minute after the royals hit our army, our whole force fled back to Bulgaria.

**Xehh II** · 05-14-2007, 08:39

Kataphraktoi in my game aren't that good in my game. I'm playing XL as the Serbs, my Voynuk Bladesmen eat Kataphraktoi for all meals.

**Roark** · 05-14-2007, 13:18

That's because they're basically Balkan Billmen, who get massive bonuses against armour and cavalry, and are specifically designed to kill armoured horse.

Try matching your Voynuk Swordsmen against some Kats and watch them run crying to Mama.

**Lord Cazaric** · 05-15-2007, 05:05

I don't have XL. There are simply too many factions for my liking.

**Xehh II** · 05-15-2007, 08:09

Originally Posted by Roark

That's because they're basically Balkan Billmen, who get massive bonuses against armour and cavalry, and are specifically designed to kill armoured horse.

Try matching your Voynuk Swordsmen against some Kats and watch them run crying to Mama.

No, I've already done that, I won't make that mistake ever again.

**cosminus** · 05-15-2007, 12:37

A high command King can be very useful on battle. However you can loose him to enemy arcers (especially armor piercing) and artilery. This can lead you to loose the battle and maybe several provinces to civil war.
Also king die of old ages/ilness. A normal general will not (in plain MTW, don't know about VI). Also if you lose contact with your king, by attacking on isolate areas, or even by breaking your ship chain and the king remain isloated on island, revolts or even civil war arises.
I prefer to train few generals from start so I can use them along entire campaign and to let the king alone in his castle with the heirs. The risk of isolating/loosing, especially when no heirs available, is no worth the advantage brought in the battlefield. The victories on battlefields/crusades/jihads also increase king influence even if he do not participate on it. The king will die anyhow wasting all his stars.
So I think is worthly to train and use normal generals avoid to use king/heirs in combat. Doing so I can have in Late 4-6 generals with 6-9 stars or more on battlefield which worth more than only one jedi King

**caravel** · 05-15-2007, 13:07

Welcome cosminus,

The starting stats of the generals (unit leaders) of your newly trained units are partly based on your faction leader's stats. If he has low command due to little participation in battle, so will the unit leaders of your newly trained units, if he has low influence, they will have low loyalty, with low acumen, they have low acumen, etc. The only exception to this rule are "hero" generals that will always appear with the same predetermined stats.

I have always found it is best to save the faction leader for only a few battles, but with the "heir and spare" in mind, use the heir to lead many battles. This doesn't mean you have to use the faction leader or a particular heir every battle but the faction heir can go out there and join the other generals on the front line. If his luck runs out then the "spare" is there in reserve.