Rise of Civilizations Part 2 [Concluded]

[seireikhaan]

Alright. The game got a bit boring towards the end anyways, as I knew I pretty much had no shot of winning anyways once I saw CR's 50k man army. The whole plan me and Tran came up with early on pretty much got shot to pieces once Motep joined the game, since he at first delayed Tran from getting both islands, and once we had him beat, he got CR on his side, and the whole thing just collapsed. Also, it messed up because the other nations started conquering each other too quickly. We wanted you all divided, darn it! Basically, we were gonna grab our main lands, Tran with the islands and me Carthage, then double team Syracuse, and once conquered them, move up Italy southwards.

[Crazed Rabbit]

This game became a bit too easy for me after I booted Caius out of upper Italy. I just kept on expanding and expanding and expanding, unhindered by war or having to even think about raising troops for defense. About maybe halfway through I just started building fully upgraded cities all at once (7k per). Towards the end I was raking in 45k+ gold per turn. The Italians were fighting amongst themselves, pevergreen and I were allied and he wasn't going to attack. Tran and Motep were destroying each other. Syracuse didn't do much, and Carthage was far, far away and constrained by land.

I might run another variant of this (not for a month at least, methinks), where the rapid pace expansion would be slower. I wouldn't play. Even if I do make all my moves before I read others, I still know what they did the turns before.

The towns would already be built, with a couple villages per town. Each province would be a town with villages. Level of the town and number of villages would affect the taxes raised and men able to be hired for troops. Soldiers would take two turns to recruit, and towns could only be upgraded one level per turn. Starting new towns would be massively difficult and expensive, so that over the game it'd be about conquering the existing towns, not building your own. I would want to to reflect more future oriented strategy - you can't wait till the enemy are on your doorstep to hire troops, so you always need some around. Towns with castles would give big defense bonuses, but enemy armies could raid and burn villages and 'mines/woodmills/etc'.

Sea trade would be cut to nigh on negligible, and town taxes would make the bulk of income, maybe some from 'mines/woodmills/etc' operation going on in a province.

I can't decide if I would want to make big changes to the combat/military system.

CR

[CountArach]

Thanks for running this CR

It was a lot of fun, I agree it was getting a bit slow towards the end as everyone could predict what was going to happen.

[Faust|]

Excellent game, CR... ended up being quite interesting! Thinly veiled aggression FTW!
Always looked forward to seeing the new map on Mondays.

Actually at the end there was quite a bit of change with Rome surpassing Illyria to become #2 (the gap would only have grown for the next several turns...) and of course the Umbrians being reduced, but even all that was a moot point. Too bad Caius capitulated so quickly!

The towns would already be built, with a couple villages per town. Each province would be a town with villages. Level of the town and number of villages would affect the taxes raised and men able to be hired for troops. Soldiers would take two turns to recruit, and towns could only be upgraded one level per turn. Starting new towns would be massively difficult and expensive, so that over the game it'd be about conquering the existing towns, not building your own. I would want to to reflect more future oriented strategy - you can't wait till the enemy are on your doorstep to hire troops, so you always need some around. Towns with castles would give big defense bonuses, but enemy armies could raid and burn villages and 'mines/woodmills/etc'.
CR

This is a good idea, but what would prevent spamming of small armies to take unoccupied towns?


Maybe some .ORG awards ... winners first, honorable mentions after... imo only and take with a grain of salt:

Most peaceful nation: Illyria, Rome, Gaul
Largest coffers: Venice
Most powerful nation: Venice, Rome
Bloodiest nation: Umbria, Epeirotes, Venice
Capitulation award: Gaul, Etruscans
Most effective propoganda: Venice, Epeirotes, Carthage
"Most hated rivals" (formerly known as -Stagnation-) award: Kendermore, Sandalyon
Best seafaring: Carthage, Venice, Umbria


Oh yes, and cheers to my good ally Rome!

[Crazed Rabbit]

This is a good idea, but what would prevent spamming of small armies to take unoccupied towns?

All rebel towns would have a not insignificant army in them.

Glad you liked the game!

CR

[Caius]

WooT, I had 2 nominations, but I should be the first in peacefull factions.

I want RoC3.

[seireikhaan]

Most peaceful nation: Sicily, Rome, Illyria, Gaul

Oh yes, and cheers to my good ally Rome!

I have a slight problem with that. You see, it should be considered that Sicily has attempted an invasion of Carthage, but I had ordered my fleet to intercept any fleets attempting to enter their movement range. In the PM, CR stated that "thousands of soldiers drowned" after I sunk the entire fleet.

[Caius]

Do you want a RoC 3 based in other place?

I would want one for the whole Eastern Europe.

[seireikhaan]

Hmm. I think perhaps a middle east RoC?

[Caius]

Rise of Egipt?

[Faust|]

I have a slight problem with that. You see, it should be considered that Sicily has attempted an invasion of Carthage, but I had ordered my fleet to intercept any fleets attempting to enter their movement range. In the PM, CR stated that "thousands of soldiers drowned" after I sunk the entire fleet.

Ah snap. Ok, Sicily loses their nomination for most peaceful country .

I was thinking if there is a RoC 3 that it would be interesting to work in a second competitive dimension alongside the military aspect, the former having just as tangible of implications as the latter. Maybe something like the "culture" aspect in the Civilization series. There could be culture "levels" for each city, default is 1. Effect and rules would be something like:

-culture level cannot exceed economic level.

-each culture level adds 400 income (where economic levels add 200 income), but this amount is not effected by trade. Only "economic" income is multiplied through trade.

-for every foreign city within, say a 200 km radius (maybe more), of a high culture city, if the difference between the two cities' culture levels is 3 or more, there is a chance every turn that the lesser city will defect to the faction with the high culture city. Not an act of war. Chance of defection could be something like: Where C1>C2, Chance of defection for C2 = .1(C1 - (C2 + 2))

-the culture level for each city determines how many "trading partners" it supplies to overseas traders. Since default C level is 1, everything starts out as normal. However, if a nation upgrades a coastal city to culture level 3, other nations will respond as if that city is actually three when calculating trading partners.

-In regards to defection, each high culture city (level 4 or above) can cancel the "defection influence" for a single foreign high culture city within 200 km of equal or lesser C level.

-no limit to C level or economic levels. Unsure of how to price C upgrade across levels. C upgrade price probably not as expensive as E, and maybe does not rise as steeply.

-high culture cities have less capacity to raise troops than other cities. For example, C level 4: limit 2000 per turn; C5: limit 1000 per turn; C6: limit 500 per turn...

The main incentive for a country is the defection effect. The added income is a perk and makes the "infrastructure" stonger and less dependent on sea trade. The added trading partners for foreign countries makes far off countries with lots of coast happy, and is a "mixed blessing" for nearer countries.

While most of this could be automated through a spreadsheet and just involves a little more data entry, the defection effect would have to be taken care of manually, both when players are specifying orders and for the moderator.

Another addition might be to demark a "rectangle" on the world map outside of which cities only earn 1/2 the income they would otherwise.

These additions would balance large advantages that nations who are not at a threat of military invasion for one reason or another (venice, illyria, carthage last game) have. Of course if you used this culture dimension, the city founding process and sea trade would have to stay. These are just ideas, I don't have any practical experience hosting the game so I have no clue actually how difficult these would be to implement . I just wrote this off the top of my head, so comments welcome.

*Very interesting to see that graph... somewhat different than what I thought was going on.

[Twilightblade]

-high culture cities have less capacity to raise troops than other cities. For example, C level 4: limit 2000 per turn; C5: limit 1000 per turn; C6: limit 500 per turn...

What if they want a military culture

[Motep]

Hmm. We were not really stagnant. We were both constantly preventing each other from expansion. I knew I was screwed in the long run, but I did what I could to make everybody else hate me!