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Thread: MTW Pocket Mod: Summary, Download and Bug Reports

  1. #121

    Default Re: Bug Reporting

    Bug reports for V1.0.9 here please.

    Comments on or suggested changes to the map here.

    Comments on or suggested changes to the buildings, units and stats here

    General comments and suggestions here.

    Last edited by caravel; 12-30-2008 at 15:26.

  2. #122

    Default Re: MTW Pocket Mod: Summary, Download and Bug Reports

    SUSPECTED BUG;

    could move agents from ports in the North Seas (say Flanders) to Venice, yet could not do it the other way around. Effect only noted in Venice - Provence for example was ok - ie could move agents to Flanders.

    !it burnsus!
    The Caravel Mod: a (very much) improvedvanilla MTW/VI v2.1 early campaign

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  3. #123

    Default Re: MTW Pocket Mod: Summary, Download and Bug Reports

    Hmmm... I need to test this one. Movement of agents between ports only requires the ports themselves in the destination and target provinces and does not rely on land or sea region interconnectivity via the startpos file (SetNeighbours).

  4. #124

    Default Re: MTW Pocket Mod: Summary, Download and Bug Reports

    Actually was wrong - same effect from Provence too.

    Med ports do not send agents to north sea/atlantic ports, need totravel by land then. Actually not so bad for gameplaywhatever may be causing it.

    !it burnsus!
    The Caravel Mod: a (very much) improvedvanilla MTW/VI v2.1 early campaign

    Please make sure you have the latest version (v3.3)
    Since v3.3 the Caravel Mod includes customised campaigns for huge and default unit settings

    Download v3.3
    Info & Discussion Thread

  5. #125

    Default Re: MTW Pocket Mod: Summary, Download and Bug Reports

    Makes sense. so the port hopping is just an illusion. Agents actually travel from port to port via coastal regions.

  6. #126

    Default Re: MTW Pocket Mod: Summary, Download and Bug Reports

    Hi, long time lurker, first-time commenter. I've downloaded every versh of the mod since 1.06 (I think) & I'd just like to offer congratulations on the latest release, it's very very cool. Thank you for taking the time to mod this, it's really interesting to see your take on the game. If what follows seems idiotic or long-winded then apologies but I hope you will forgive me as I'm just trying to give my own impressions of the things I've found...

    Right-o.

    1) I don't know if this is a bug or a feature, but as the Byzantines I cannot make/retrain units of Dynatoi Oikenatoi (or whatever the bodyguard cataphracts are called) unless I have a royal palace; I believe that the only way I can obtain one of these is to raid the Seljuks & hope that the one in Rum doesn't fall down when I take the province. As the Byz I can make the royal court & that line but it no longer has a palace in it.

    If I'm missing something (still getting the hang of the tech tree, sorry) I apologise profusely, but for the life of me I can't see how to do this.

    2) Also, when I play as a Catholic power, the Muslims (Fatimids especially) seem a bit overpowered. I think I understand why you have bulked the Fatimids up (to compensate for the early Byzantine Jedi generals, right?) but as the Catholics one-on-one untired units are only just beatable, which when combined with their horde-like numbers makes crusading desperately un-fun. Again, I appreciate the balance issues you must've had to get this how you like it, but maybe the Catholic units should be bumped a point or two as they are always outnumbered?

    3) Kinda related to 2: do the Crusade orders of knights still appear in crusades? I've saved & reloaded before unleashing a crusade umpteen times, but can never get the knights to appear. Now only Fanatics & Order Foot appear in the line-up, in varying proportion. Was that intended or have I broken something?


    Anyway, sorry to go on. Enough already, thank you for the work & I for one will be following your progress with interest.
    Last edited by Turbosatan; 01-11-2009 at 15:10. Reason: Removed general comments which I've lopped off for their own post...

  7. #127

    Default Re: MTW Pocket Mod: Summary, Download and Bug Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbosatan View Post
    Hi, long time lurker, first-time commenter. I've downloaded every versh of the mod since 1.06 (I think) & I'd just like to offer congratulations on the latest release, it's very very cool. Thank you for taking the time to mod this, it's really interesting to see your take on the game. If what follows seems idiotic or long-winded then apologies but I hope you will forgive me as I'm just trying to give my own impressions of the things I've found...

    Right-o.
    Welcome Turbosatan

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbosatan View Post
    1) I don't know if this is a bug or a feature, but as the Byzantines I cannot make/retrain units of Dynatoi Oikenatoi (or whatever the bodyguard cataphracts are called) unless I have a royal palace; I believe that the only way I can obtain one of these is to raid the Seljuks & hope that the one in Rum doesn't fall down when I take the province. As the Byz I can make the royal court & that line but it no longer has a palace in it.

    If I'm missing something (still getting the hang of the tech tree, sorry) I apologise profusely, but for the life of me I can't see how to do this.
    I've checked through the unit prod file and I cannot see an issue. I think what you're referring to is the Royal Palace's uniqueness. That is to say that it can only be built in one province, and this means that Bodyguard units can also only be (re)trained in that province - at a premium. The AI should also not train new bodyguard units but the facility is there for the player for retraining purposes. I actually favoured having no retraining facilities for bodyguard units at all (as was the case with STW), because the AI cannot retrain at all, but others thought it would be wise to give the player the retraining option. The increase in the cost of the bodyguard units also means that a king's ransom can be quite high, which could have a lot of pros and cons involved, anyway this is being trialled but whatever comes of it, the Royal Palace will remain unique.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbosatan View Post
    2) Also, when I play as a Catholic power, the Muslims (Fatimids especially) seem a bit overpowered. I think I understand why you have bulked the Fatimids up (to compensate for the early Byzantine Jedi generals, right?) but as the Catholics one-on-one untired units are only just beatable, which when combined with their horde-like numbers makes crusading desperately un-fun. Again, I appreciate the balance issues you must've had to get this how you like it, but maybe the Catholic units should be bumped a point or two as they are always outnumbered?
    It's not solely due the Byzantine that the Muslim factions have been given a boost, it's because previously they were prone to peasant spam and were easily dispatched. In Vanilla MTW the "Egyptians" only seemed to serve as "crusade targets". The Fatimids are not that different to the old Egyptians however. Arab Swordsmen are slightly improved and so are Desert Archers. The Fatimids also have access to Desert Horse Archers and Futuwwa. They tend to produce a lot of better quality units instead of just spamming peasants. In what ways are you finding them too difficult? To me one on one being only just beatable = balance, which is a good thing, or is that not what you were getting at?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbosatan View Post
    3) Kinda related to 2: do the Crusade orders of knights still appear in crusades? I've saved & reloaded before unleashing a crusade umpteen times, but can never get the knights to appear. Now only Fanatics & Order Foot appear in the line-up, in varying proportion. Was that intended or have I broken something?
    I'm glad you've pointed this one out. I have made Order Knights trainable in the Levant only and this is probably restricting them appearing in crusades that start from elsewhere. I will probably have to create duplicate units in order to get this to work correctly or I will have to choose one system or the other. Those Order Knights that appear in crusades will have to be one unit and those that are trained in the holy land will have to be another (possibly with less armour, to be better suited to the desert (historical basis would be good)).

    Regards

    Caravel


  8. #128

    Default Re: MTW Pocket Mod: Summary, Download and Bug Reports

    Thank you for your replies.

    The palace issue: that explains that, then!

    RE: crusades. You're right, I think I was smarting from having a crusade fail spectacularly. Apologies. Although I have noticed that almost everyone else's crusades fail now, I think because they only have Fanatics in them (with most one or two Order Foot). Unless zeal is enormous around the starting provinces, the crusades get to the Holy Land without really hoovering up enough elite troops to make a convincing stand at the sandy end. Just thought I'd point it out.

    Order knights: Ah, I see... I was just letting you know, sort of thing. Glad it wasn't something broken.

    One thing I will say, having had a good old play through today (ah, ignoring deadlines is fun, right? Right?) is that whoever gets hold of Moldavia goes javelinmen cra-zeee, to their detriment.

    Anyway, thanks again & speak soon.

    Best,

    Turbosatan.

  9. #129

    Default Re: MTW Pocket Mod: Summary, Download and Bug Reports

    Regarding the bodyguards issue - the AI builds bodyguards by the dozen - its not as you say that they dont get built. The Fatimid and Byzantine AIs are the best examples of this.

    If it was up to me i d make bodyguard units untrainable, this will bring out the strength of the heavy cavalry units of each faction instead of preferring the Bodyguard due to the cheap upkeep (which is good as it hepls with AI faction economics).

    In this way also the player suffers just as much as the AI if he is not careful with his nobility.

    I understand why somebody would want the option but it ends up as a hiindrance of some sort for the AI factions - the best would have been if all BGs were automatically replenishable as king BGs are.

    King s ransom being high is good and it should actually be higher - my opinion.

    Also consider setting up the Royal Palace of all factions in their *capital* province - the Byzantine AI say builts it in Rhodes or in Athens instead of the obvious choice of the big C and that isnt very helpful since the varangians are also reliable on the RP.

    !it burnsus!
    Last edited by gollum; 01-11-2009 at 19:29.
    The Caravel Mod: a (very much) improvedvanilla MTW/VI v2.1 early campaign

    Please make sure you have the latest version (v3.3)
    Since v3.3 the Caravel Mod includes customised campaigns for huge and default unit settings

    Download v3.3
    Info & Discussion Thread

  10. #130

    Default Re: MTW Pocket Mod: Summary, Download and Bug Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbosatan View Post
    RE: crusades. You're right, I think I was smarting from having a crusade fail spectacularly. Apologies. Although I have noticed that almost everyone else's crusades fail now, I think because they only have Fanatics in them (with most one or two Order Foot). Unless zeal is enormous around the starting provinces, the crusades get to the Holy Land without really hoovering up enough elite troops to make a convincing stand at the sandy end. Just thought I'd point it out.

    Order knights: Ah, I see... I was just letting you know, sort of thing. Glad it wasn't something broken.
    Yes they need the changes I've mentioned earlier or restricting back to crusade only units again. I think the latter is the best approach as they're basically only near enough High Era Knight clones anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbosatan View Post
    One thing I will say, having had a good old play through today (ah, ignoring deadlines is fun, right? Right?) is that whoever gets hold of Moldavia goes javelinmen cra-zeee, to their detriment.
    Yes, we're painfully aware of this problem. Javelins need restricting to certain factions and provinces.

    Quote Originally Posted by gollum View Post
    Regarding the bodyguards issue - the AI builds bodyguards by the dozen - its not as you say that they dont get built. The Fatimid and Byzantine AIs are the best examples of this.

    If it was up to me i d make bodyguard units untrainable, this will bring out the strength of the heavy cavalry units of each faction instead of preferring the Bodyguard due to the cheap upkeep (which is good as it hepls with AI faction economics).

    In this way also the player suffers just as much as the AI if he is not careful with his nobility.
    This means that the unit choices alone are not working. The AI sees the unit as costing a lot and having good stats and so pays up for it... wonderful...

    Yes I will have to go back to my original plan of making bodyguard units non (re)trainable. I will keep the recruitment costs as is (to affect ransoms) but change the support costs to nil.

    Quote Originally Posted by gollum View Post
    I understand why somebody would want the option but it ends up as a hiindrance of some sort for the AI factions - the best would have been if all BGs were automatically replenishable as king BGs are.
    This is how CA should have done it... etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by gollum View Post
    King s ransom being high is good and it should actually be higher - my opinion.
    The problem with it being too high is that it could paralyse the AI entirely if they're forced to ransom back a king and/or heirs.
    Quote Originally Posted by gollum View Post
    Also consider setting up the Royal Palace of all factions in their *capital* province - the Byzantine AI say builts it in Rhodes or in Athens instead of the obvious choice of the big C and that isnt very helpful since the varangians are also reliable on the RP.
    Yes this was the original plan, not much of an excuse I know, but let's just say that I haven't got around to it yet. I discussed this probably over a year ago now about "forcing" the capital to ensure the new faction leader appears back within the homelands. I did think about using the land clearance for the palace and thereby making it indestructible, but I think the location of the palace does need some flexibility.


  11. #131

    Default Re: MTW Pocket Mod: Summary, Download and Bug Reports

    The problem with it being too high is that it could paralyse the AI entirely if they're forced to ransom back a king and/or heirs.
    Good point, keeping it as it is is fine then.

    I did think about using the land clearance for the palace and thereby making it indestructible, but I think the location of the palace does need some flexibility.
    I havent seen RPs get caught by the autopillage and i saw plenty of that occuring in 1.08 and 1.09beta. Both ways its good in my view as long as its not built somewhere completely innapropriately at the start of a campaign. For this reason i suggest that all factions start with it in their natural capitals and if caught in pillaging they can built it at will wherever they please.

    !it burnsus!
    The Caravel Mod: a (very much) improvedvanilla MTW/VI v2.1 early campaign

    Please make sure you have the latest version (v3.3)
    Since v3.3 the Caravel Mod includes customised campaigns for huge and default unit settings

    Download v3.3
    Info & Discussion Thread

  12. #132

    Default Re: MTW Pocket Mod: Summary, Download and Bug Reports

    Hmmm... the issue that gollum mentioned regarding agents not being able to travel via ports from the Atlantic to the Mediterranean is an odd one. I have also cut off the Eastern Med. region from the Western Med region, yet agents can travel between these areas. Like the Straits of Gibralltar "barrier", the Central Med. "barrier" alows ships through it, but only deep sea vessels. It makes no sense...

    Anyway considering that I'm taking ships out I don't suppose I should worry about this? It may be better to simply link the sea regions up as before and then simply remove ships and shipwrights, add landbridges an take it from there.

    -Edit: Even though it's unintentional, I still kind of like the idea of it... it makes sense to prevent agents travelling so far yet allowing them to pass between the eastern and western med. regions does make sense. I know gollum mentioned this earlier. Sorry that I wasn't paying attention gollum.



    -Edit: I'm now playing a Turks campaign. I will the play a French campaign and try to discern as to whether ships should go or not, or whether we can tweak ships to leave them in but not paralyse the AI.
    Last edited by caravel; 02-28-2009 at 23:25.

  13. #133

    Default Re: MTW Pocket Mod: Summary, Download and Bug Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by gollum View Post
    SUSPECTED BUG;

    could move agents from ports in the North Seas (say Flanders) to Venice, yet could not do it the other way around. Effect only noted in Venice - Provence for example was ok - ie could move agents to Flanders.

    !it burnsus!
    Hmmm... connectivity may only be one way in that region, need to check...


    ******************07/03/09******************************

    • Fixed.
    Last edited by caravel; 03-08-2009 at 13:23.

  14. #134
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    Default Re: MTW Pocket Mod: Summary, Download and Bug Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by Asai Nagamasa View Post
    Anyway considering that I'm taking ships out I don't suppose I should worry about this? It may be better to simply link the sea regions up as before and then simply remove ships and shipwrights, add landbridges an take it from there.
    Well that's probably the easiest way, isn't it? Assuming that's the case, I'd say go for it -- no point in making it harder than you have to, especially if ships/shipwrights are being removed anyway.


    Quote Originally Posted by Asai Nagamasa View Post
    -Edit: Even though it's unintentional, I still kind of like the idea of it... it makes sense to prevent agents travelling so far yet allowing them to pass between the eastern and western med. regions does make sense..

    Slightly OT, but *does* it make sense? I thought ships could travel that far in a year, even back then. Not so?

    Anyway, I think the more germane question is: How would splitting up the Med like that affect the AI? Would it suffer from agents not being able to travel as far, or it would it still be more or less okay? I'm cool with it either way, just so long as we're not hamstringing the computer opponents (or at least keeping it to a minimum).


    Quote Originally Posted by Asai Nagamasa View Post
    -Edit: I'm now playing a Turks campaign. I will the play a French campaign and try to discern as to whether ships should go or not, or whether we can tweak ships to leave them in but not paralyse the AI.
    "MTW is not a game, it's a way of life." -- drone

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