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Thread: MTW Pocket Mod: Units, Buildings and Unit Stats

  1. #331
    Senior Member Senior Member naut's Avatar
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    Default Re: MTW Pocket Mod: Summary, Download and Bug Reports

    Are Mosques meant to provide 0 in revenue?

    Also it might be better if the Seljuks start with either Turcoman Horse or Desert Horse Archers rather than Steppe Horse Archers.
    #Hillary4prism

    BD:TW

    Some piously affirm: "The truth is such and such. I know! I see!"
    And hold that everything depends upon having the “right” religion.
    But when one really knows, one has no need of religion. - Mahavyuha Sutra

    Freedom necessarily involves risk. - Alan Watts

  2. #332

    Default Re: MTW Pocket Mod: Summary, Download and Bug Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by Rythmic View Post
    Are Mosques meant to provide 0 in revenue?
    Grand Mosques provide an income, Mosques do not. Because they are both of the same line, the Mosques shows 0 income.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rythmic View Post
    Also it might be better if the Seljuks start with either Turcoman Horse or Desert Horse Archers rather than Steppe Horse Archers.
    That can be done.


  3. #333
    Senior Member Senior Member naut's Avatar
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    Default Re: MTW Pocket Mod: Summary, Download and Bug Reports

    The English are making far to many Hobilars. I was fighting against them as France and in nearly eavery province they had 6+ units of Hobilars, but almost no other types of unit.
    #Hillary4prism

    BD:TW

    Some piously affirm: "The truth is such and such. I know! I see!"
    And hold that everything depends upon having the “right” religion.
    But when one really knows, one has no need of religion. - Mahavyuha Sutra

    Freedom necessarily involves risk. - Alan Watts

  4. #334

    Default Re: MTW Pocket Mod: Summary, Download and Bug Reports

    I've noticed that. They cannot be built in France anymore anyway, though the problem is more so the "unit choices" combined with actual unit availability. In vanilla MTW the AI spams them in Aquitaine anyway because it starts with the infrastructure. The remedy is to make other units available earlier and more cheaply than hobilars and to change the "unit choices" to make Hobilars less of a choice. At present the AI wants to build hobilars more than it wants to build Sergeants, Men at Arms or archers.

    -Edit: I've adjusted it but only for "POVERTY_STRICKEN()". I'll see what that does. I've already fixed Royal Knights in this respect btw. The AI should not want to build those at all now and should instead train Knights which are cheaper and faster to build but more costly to support.
    Last edited by caravel; 12-07-2008 at 12:14.

  5. #335

    Default Re: MTW Pocket Mod: Summary, Download and Bug Reports

    I've made some changes that basically restrict all early era ships to coastal waters only. I'm thinking that we need Early, High and Late era vessels with only the Late era fleets allowed into the deep sea regions, but for now we'll see how it goes.

  6. #336
    Camel Lord Senior Member Capture The Flag Champion Martok's Avatar
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    Default Re: MTW Pocket Mod: Summary, Download and Bug Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by Cynewulf View Post
    I've made some changes that basically restrict all early era ships to coastal waters only. I'm thinking that we need Early, High and Late era vessels with only the Late era fleets allowed into the deep sea regions, but for now we'll see how it goes.
    That's not a bad idea. Can it be done without having to depend on the Compass, though? Just curious.
    "MTW is not a game, it's a way of life." -- drone

  7. #337

    Default Re: MTW Pocket Mod: Summary, Download and Bug Reports

    Hmm... the compass is a prerequisite for the third and fourth level shipyards, it is not needed for the ships themselves. At present it does not have effect as the ships that require the third level shipyard are high/late era only anyway. If we wanted to tie shipbuilding to the compass and gunpowder events only then we would have to remove the era restrictions currently in place and use the events to determine when ships become available. e.g:

    Dhow: From Early (Muslim/GH)
    Baggala: Compass (Muslim/GH)
    Boom: Gunpowder (Muslim/GH)

    Longboat: From early (Danes only)
    Barque: From early (Catholic/Orthodox - excluding Danes, Byzantine, Italians and Sicilians)
    Caravel: Compass (Catholic/Orthodox - excluding Byzantine, Italians and Sicilians)
    Cog: Gunpowder (Catholic/Orthodox - excluding Byzantine, Italians and Sicilians)
    Carrack: Gunpowder (Catholic/Orthodox - excluding Byzantine, Italians and Sicilians)

    Dromon: From early (Byzantine, Italians and Sicilians)
    Galley: From early (Byzantine, Italians and Sicilians)
    Firegally: Compass (Byzantine, Italians and Sicilians)
    Wargalley: Compass (Byzantine, Italians and Sicilians)
    Gungalley: Gunpowder (Byzantine, Italians and Sicilians)

  8. #338

    Default Re: MTW Pocket Mod: Units, Buildings and Unit Stats

    Hi,
    a suggestion that springs from the 1.0.9 beta playtest i did and need to post before i forget;

    LOCAL UNITS - flavor versus stack balance and battlefield balance

    CA gracefully provided a number of extra *local* units in the VI unitprod file that are used/barely used/not used.

    This in my opinion should be taken advantage in order to use the new info pics/sprites to add units that are faction/homeland specific rather than units that can be recruited by *everyone* that occupies the regions they can be built.

    This includes many cases you are aware of as the javelin units and the Slav Warrior units.

    The problems with such units are;

    1. They are very weak in the field and autocalc and get weaker as the ages change

    2. The AI preffers them, so they affect stack composition. Its really very easy to fight stacks full of javelins or stack warriors and the *flavor* is not worth this downgrading - neither the *the player enjoys the javelins so put loads in anyway* argument.

    3. The AI fails miserably to use them in the field. As with most hybrids the AI does not protect javelins with say spears against cavalry and their short range and skirmish use by the AI turns them into headless chikens once cavalry is unleashed.

    You have addressed this problem with eastern hybrids - desert archers are very resilient to medium charger cavalry (at least in deserts) and only knights can round them up like sheep as in vanilla.

    Consider addressing it for javs too - the vanilla Murabitins can be an excellent basis on which to base javelins; they should be units that are nearly immune to archer fire - large shield/pavise (but suffer from xbows and guns); units that can partially self resist cavalry (spear attribute that immunes them to horse charges) and also semidecent light infantry so they can be engaged by the AI and be felt.

    Increasing javelin range and desreasing ammo should also help in making them more useful to the AI - by the time they empty their loads faster than usual (since longer range and less ammo increase the possibilities of that happening) the AI will use them in melee sooner than he does and in this way they may actually help turn the tide of battles.

    4. Availability and upkeep. Two more achilees heels for these units. They are too easily recruitable and cost nothing to get and maintain. So the AI spams them as all know. By making them better fighters (see above) you can justify an increase in their cost and upkeep so that they are built as an icing to a besic force of spears/swords/cavalry/shooters by any faction that can use them and not their bread and butter.

    In essence only units that are recruitable in 1 province work well in this way - say the Swabian swords (decent but from single province) or the Avars in vanilla (again decent only 1 province) or the Alans.

    Units that need such treatments are the javelins, the slavs, woodsmen etc - the so called junk units.

    !it burnsus!
    Last edited by gollum; 01-12-2009 at 11:29.
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  9. #339
    Cthonic God of Deception Member ULC's Avatar
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    Default Re: MTW Pocket Mod: Units, Buildings and Unit Stats

    It may just be me, but unit rosters need to be reworked in my opinion so we the AI always has some form Spear/Sword/Shooter/Cavalry combination. Units such as the "Woodsmen", "Archer", "Spearman", and "Medium Cavalry" (all just examples) could be considered the basic level of unit production for European states, modified by that factions exclusive units. As to the Arabic and African nations, I am not sure what one would consider "basic" among them - Desert Archers, Bedouin Camelry, Arab Infantry, and Spearmen?

  10. #340

    Default Re: MTW Pocket Mod: Units, Buildings and Unit Stats

    Quote Originally Posted by YLC View Post
    It may just be me, but unit rosters need to be reworked in my opinion so we the AI always has some form Spear/Sword/Shooter/Cavalry combination. Units such as the "Woodsmen", "Archer", "Spearman", and "Medium Cavalry" (all just examples) could be considered the basic level of unit production for European states, modified by that factions exclusive units.
    This ties in well with what I'm actually trying to achieve. I have renamed Archers to "Foresters" and I may extend the availability of woodsmen somewhat. At the moment, as you have hinted, there are gaps (some of which are huge) that need to be filled.

    Quote Originally Posted by YLC View Post
    As to the Arabic and African nations, I am not sure what one would consider "basic" among them - Desert Archers, Bedouin Camelry, Arab Infantry, and Spearmen?
    Yes, along with Berber Camels, Nubian Spearmen and Desert Horse Archers.

    If you have any input as to the correct structure of the unit rosters I'd be glad to read it.


  11. #341

    Default Re: MTW Pocket Mod: Units, Buildings and Unit Stats

    Well I'm not happy with the tech tree as it stands so it's probable that in the next version I will be reverting an earlier model, more similar to 1.06. I will then probably work from there reassigning units and removing redundancy.

    -Edit: Does anyone have 1.06 by any chance?
    Last edited by caravel; 03-01-2009 at 13:31.

  12. #342
    Senior Member Senior Member naut's Avatar
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    Default Re: MTW Pocket Mod: Units, Buildings and Unit Stats

    I have 1.07, but not 1.06.
    #Hillary4prism

    BD:TW

    Some piously affirm: "The truth is such and such. I know! I see!"
    And hold that everything depends upon having the “right” religion.
    But when one really knows, one has no need of religion. - Mahavyuha Sutra

    Freedom necessarily involves risk. - Alan Watts

  13. #343

    Default Re: MTW Pocket Mod: Units, Buildings and Unit Stats

    Gah... oh well back to the drawing board then. Thanks anyway.

    I am open to suggestions for the improvement of the tech tree. As you know I tend to admit when I've got it wrong and I think I've got it pretty wrong this time. The huge gaps between units becoming available are very off-putting and the amount of useless buildings I find myself constructing equally so.

    The only thing I like about the current setup is the ribat/nomad camp and the muster field/inn. I'll keep these as they are.

    I think I will have to go for a tech tree roughly based on the former one, but with only one building per unit for infantry and two for cavalry and knights/elite cavalry.
    Last edited by caravel; 03-02-2009 at 09:09.

  14. #344

    Default Re: MTW Pocket Mod: Units, Buildings and Unit Stats

    Do you mean recovering the tech tree based on Spearmaker, Swordsmith, Bowyer, Town Militias and Horse Breeder? I think you will meet again these matters:

    Quote Originally Posted by Asai Nagamasa View Post
    Some factions would use all levels of buildings and some would not. This is often the case in vanilla MTW and RTW anyway. We will get around this because the upgrades themselves will be cheap, so if the AI does upgrade needlessly it won't be a big issue. Also the Master level valour bonuses are presently still intact.

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