Forts good defensive idea?

[crpcarrot]

hi all

i am just wndering how affective forts arein a battle.

i'm thinking of blocking off some passes with forts but i've never used forts at all so far so dont really know how they operate. ive read that the fort turns up in the middle of the battlefield and u get a flat map. this doesnt sound very defendable specially if the AI brings along artillery.

what sort of situations do forts come in handy in?

[_Tristan_]

I mainly use forts to delay enemy advance into territories where i cannot field full-time armies...

I generally place them at mountain passes, bridges, fords, anywhere an enemy army is forced to pass to enter my lands...

What I usually do is leave a depleted unit in the fort to maintain it...Generally, the Ai will attack the fort which can resist for a few turns (1 or 2 IIRC) and gives me time to bring reinforcements to the rescue of the garrisoned troops. Most of the times the simple approach of numerous units will send the AI back without a single fight...

Another use of the fort (which I don't recommend... It feels like cheating) is called the fiort exploit that is building a fort on a resource (preferably gold, ivory or amber depending on what faction you are playing) and fill it with merchants, the profit gained will then be multiplied by the number of merchants...

As to forts,in battle, they are IMO a danger to your troops and the solution (if possible) is to lead the attack with a reinforcement thus avoiding the fort battlefield...

[Shahed]

It can be useful as it usually has 2 exits, so you leave a couple of units inside and walk the rest out the back. You can then flank etc. The larger your fort garrison the more probable it is you will have to attack because missile/artillery fire in that confined space will damage you badly. They are useful to block wandering AI armies. Place forts, for example, near Metz, Dijon towards Bern, on the road from Marseille to Genoa, 4 forts along the Pyrenees, on the bridge north of Antwerp, and one more southeast of that and you pretty much close off wandering armies into France.

They are useful to block chokepoints, mountain passes, bridges, river crossings. They also give you 1 turn (minimum assault time without spy) advance warning of an attack on your nation.

Of course you can use them as forward outposts, like this. I'm copy pasting here, please have a look at this thread. <-Link.

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In this image reserve forts replenish the forward forts. No army can come through there into Turkey. One of the forts also serves as an Intelligence HQ (emissaries, spies, asssassins), and a trading post (merchants).

Constantinople, which has been the front line for fighting off Crusades for about 60 years, has 4-5 forts surrounding it.

The Northwestern fort serves as a base for an Infantry army (the Sword of Hussein), which can deploy along the road, south towards Thessalonica, or north towards Sofia. This is mainly an army in training, but serves as the province garrison.

The fort also serves as a trading post, a diplomatic mission and as a secret service HQ.

The Southwestern fort is base to an all cavalry army (The Sword of Suleyman). This army is used for intercepting Crusades and other hostile forces as they are spotted by spies in neighbouring regions. This army is deployed beyond the empire's frontiers from this base, to hunt down hostiles. This army has successfully campaigned as far afield as Bern.

There are two "feeder" bases housing reserve troops for both armies. These reserves are deployed as and when the armies are in the field. The forts are then manned by fresh reserve troops coming from Izmir (Smyrna) and Malazgirt (Caesarea).

The cities have their own militia garrisons.

The same can also be done in hostile territory but since merchants (apparently) make more florins on their own territory, it may be best to do it on you own territory. You can also negotiate military access with an ally and establish this sort of HQ in their territory.

Of course as a superpower, you can also just walk in and push people around.

Sinan, Great discovery. To me it IS historically accurate. The Venetians, Genoese and the Baltic Hansa had fortified trading posts and trading colonies. One of the most famous ones was the Venetian and Genoese fortified trading post Pera (today Galata in Turkish) across Bosporus next to Constantinople.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galata_Tower

Thanks.

That's an excellent example you gave there. Bravo !
Anyway in game it's a lot of fun to do.
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Forts can also be placed in between settlements so your captains can stop in them on journeys. This helps prevent desertion and ambush.

[Magraev]

By placing forts in chokepoints you trouble the AI's pathfinding. You can for instance "catch" (or keep out) a lot of agents in north italy by making forts in all the alp passes. They also serve as a "safe" first battle with an agressor, instead of fighting for your nearby cities unprepared.

A fort in a chokepoint is hard to reinforce though, so don't place any unit you care about in them. a depleted town militia or peasant is a good bet.

Remember not to build watchtowers near the good chokepoints, that will make it impossible to build forts (found that out the hard way).

[crpcarrot]

dont forts disappear when unmanned?

isnt it expensive having so many huge armies in forts though?

[Shahed]

I've updated my first post.

dont forts disappear when unmanned?
isnt it expensive having so many huge armies in forts though?

No. They don't as long as there is something in them.

No it isn't. In the image I posted, the main armies don't actually STAY in the fort at all time. I'm at war with all Europe those forts are operating bases. From there the armies campaign far into Europe. In any case those are only 2 full stacks. In fact it's cheaper to have fewer stacks and for the Turks that is the best choke point.

I'm not suggesting you do this everywhere. I did this because it made sense to do this in that game at that spot. I do this, sometimes, when I feel it's appropriate.

Since you ask about income, here's the status at that time. Look at the merchant trade, 719 FL, hardly an exploit. Also if you want to cheat there is a list of cheat codes, for example, just type this in console "add_money 40000", this will give you 40K FLs, so you don't have to bother going through all this.

Financial Overview.



Hope this helps.

[crpcarrot]

yeah it does help

my main worry was about putting my invading armies in forts between turns cos i am afraid they will lose any terrain advantage. plus i want to create some choke points as well.

what i willdo is have some lightly guarded forts within a turns march of reinforcements. and re invading armies i guess it will depend on the terrain weather i use a fort or not.

[Shahed]

if you place them correctly you won't lose terrain advantage. Zoom on the camp map and place them so the high ground is to their back, try to place them so forests are behind them as well. This gives you cover and allows you greater line of sight.

Naturally if the enemy comes from the direction of the high ground, they will then have terrain advantage.

They are not at all like cities, more like a bunch of tents with a wooden palisade. They are easy to break down, but like I said earlier you can use them so that you attract your enemy to them and just sally out from the rear, surround them while they focus on the fort. Specially if you have cavalry it's very effective.

IMO forts are not useful enough, it will be better in the expansion.

The other option you mentioned is exactly like in my screenshot, except vice versa, my main armies are foward deployed (to attack the enemy as they approach, spotted by spies) and the reserves are deployed to the rear.

[bggeneral]

In the Kingdoms expantion will be Stone forts. Looks amaizing :-) Watch the Englang movie.