Thanks a lot, unions

[Goofball]

A special interest group would be "The union of foot doctors". The union I'm talking about here, LO, basically represents the entire workforce.

How can a single union represent an entire country's workforce? Does it represent public sector workers? Private sector workers? Police? Truckers? Teachers? Construction workers? Farm workers? Fishermen? Computer techs? Carpenters?

Sorry, but I smell hyperbole.

So yes, I want them to hold our PM by the ears every time he forgets he's a socialist and is seduced by the dark side of market liberalism...

Yes, God forbid market demand should actually dictate the price we pay for things. We should have the unions and government tell us what we have to pay.

As Watchman says, the unions here are something of a 4th power of government, along with the media. They've become one of those institutions our entire society rests on.

Scary and sad.

[Watchman]

If you don't actually know about it, don't slam it so readily. This stuff was given some serious thought back when it got started, and leaving aside the bluff and bluster between the wage-payer and -earner reps in the yearly negotiations has more or less worked like a charm for, oh, depends a bit on the country, but many decades in all cases.

But if you now really want I can go get my PolSci textbook and see if I can enlighten you about the intricacies.

How can a single union represent an entire country's workforce? Does it represent public sector workers? Private sector workers? Police? Truckers? Teachers? Construction workers? Farm workers? Fishermen? Computer techs? Carpenters?

Would the terms "umbrella organisation" or "designated representative" help ?

Yes, God forbid market demand should actually dictate the price we pay for things. We should have the unions and government tell us what we have to pay.

Pay, nothing. What ours in any case negotiate is stuff like pay hikes to keep pace with the inflation and turns of economy and so on, all the little sundry details of the worker/employer interface that need constant tweaking.

Scary and sad.

That very much sums up the general opinion on the US situation here, you know.
Pot, kettle.

Anyway, I don't really quite understand what you have against population segments' chosen representative organizations working things out with their peers and the governement at the negotiation table.

[Goofball]

If you don't actually know about it, don't slam it so readily. This stuff was given some serious thought back when it got started, and leaving aside the bluff and bluster between the wage-payer and -earner reps in the yearly negotiations has more or less worked like a charm for, oh, depends a bit on the country, but many decades in all cases.

Doesn't France get shut down and held hostage by paralyzing strikes every few years or so?

Is that what you call "working like a charm?"

But if you now really want I can go get my PolSci textbook and see if I can enlighten you about the intricacies.

How can a single union represent an entire country's workforce? Does it represent public sector workers? Private sector workers? Police? Truckers? Teachers? Construction workers? Farm workers? Fishermen? Computer techs? Carpenters?

Would the terms "umbrella organisation" or "designated representative" help ?

Maybe you should simply answer my question instead of resorting to crypticisms. Is it one single union, or a confederation of unions led by some sort of a council? Are they negotiating all contracts for all workers both government and private sector?

If you want me to understand your system, try to explain it rather than just being smug about how superior it is.

I'll try to keep up, I promise. I was a PolySci major before switching to Commerce, so I just might be able to follow what you're saying.

Scary and sad.

That very much sums up the general opinion on the US situation here, you know.
Pot, kettle.

Fortunately, I think we Canadians have struck a much better balance than both of you. To paint with broad strokes, the U.S. is ruled by corporations, and Europe is ruled by Big Labour. Canada, I think, has managed to find a bit of middleground.

There, my turn to be smug.

[Watchman]

Doesn't France get shut down and held hostage by paralyzing strikes every few years or so?

Is that what you call "working like a charm?"

Seems to work fine for them. Do recall that they have institutionalized civil disobedience as well.

But you'd really have to ask a Frenchman or someone otherwise more closely aquainted with the system there. They do things differently from us Scandinavians.

Maybe you should simply answer my question instead of resorting to crypticisms. Is it one single union, or a confederation of unions led by some sort of a council? Are they negotiating all contracts for all workers both government and private sector?

If you want me to understand your system, try to explain it rather than just being smug about how superior it is.

I'll try to keep up, I promise. I was a PolySci major before switching to Commerce, so I just might be able to follow what you're saying.

Note that the Finnish and Norwegian systems aren't identical. Off the top of my head I can't recall anything specific about how they do things, but around here basically the representatives of main branch labour union associations and the employer equivalents get together every year and wrangle up a consensus framework contract that basically sets out the wage developements and suchlike for the next year, with the governement acting as a sort of referee and quarantor. As might be imagined those negotiations can go on for a while, as many of the two main parties' interests are almost diametrically opposed (eg. the employees would prefer as high wages as possible, the employers as low as possible by default) and major strikes and all that jazz occasionally spiced up the proceedings in the past. I understand the threats of such labour fights are still occasionally flashed as part of the negotiation tactics, and sometimes followed through as well although that level of confrontationalism has gotten rarer these days.

Makes for some good serial drama too, since they redo it every year, and obviously a lot of the audience have their own stakes in the game.

Fortunately, I think we Canadians have struck a much better balance than both of you. To paint with broad strokes, the U.S. is ruled by corporations, and Europe is ruled by Big Labour. Canada, I think, has managed to find a bit of middleground.

There, my turn to be smug.

People tend to sort of forget that you guys even exist, though.