Torture Techniques Revealed at Gitmo

**doc_bean** · 05-16-2007, 13:24

Originally Posted by Vladimir

Sure, if they applied. I can't go shoot up a Russian military base and expect them.

Well technically, it would be exquivalent to the Russian coming to the US, blowing stuff up, you taking you gun, firing at them and then getting captured and taken to Russia.

Not quite the same situation. While I don't want to argue about the validity of the war in Afghanistan, the US was still the invading force, and a lot of people attacking US soldiers where doing so to protect themselves and/or their family and/or their assest, or at least believed they needed to be protected against 'the americans'.

**Redleg** · 05-20-2007, 14:40

Originally Posted by doc_bean

Well technically, it would be exquivalent to the Russian coming to the US, blowing stuff up, you taking you gun, firing at them and then getting captured and taken to Russia.

Not exactly. The individual would have to have been from say Canada or Mexico.

Not quite the same situation. While I don't want to argue about the validity of the war in Afghanistan, the US was still the invading force, and a lot of people attacking US soldiers where doing so to protect themselves and/or their family and/or their assest, or at least believed they needed to be protected against 'the americans'.

Some that are held in Gitmo might fit that catergory but the majority should be those who are not native citizens of Afganstan. Now the problem that we all face is that we don't know the full story, to much is being left out, and then there is the futher mudding of the waters of prisoners not being captured in Afganstan or Iraq. If such prisoners exist then the United States is clearly in the wrong.

**Strike For The South** · 05-20-2007, 14:58

So as long as we have the same veiw on Human rights as Russia were ok? Thats like saying our economys like Sierra Leones I think were on the right track.

**Redleg** · 05-20-2007, 15:01

Originally Posted by Strike For The South

So as long as we have the same veiw on Human rights as Russia were ok? Thats like saying our economys like Sierra Leones I think were on the right track.

Never stated such a thing. try again or point out who you were directing your statement toward

**doc_bean** · 05-20-2007, 15:21

Originally Posted by Redleg

Some that are held in Gitmo might fit that catergory but the majority should be those who are not native citizens of Afganstan.

Not something I've heard (often) before. Do you happen to have proof of this ?

**Redleg** · 05-20-2007, 16:15

Originally Posted by doc_bean

Not something I've heard (often) before. Do you happen to have proof of this ?

Just some information from globalsecurity.org that I would like to believe is correct. Again in the absence of real facts I am hestiant to reach a firm conclusion about Gitmo any longer. Several detainee's have been shown to have been brought in from outside Afganstan and Iraq.

However here is the statement I was refering to.

Originally Posted by Globalsecurity

According to one report, to qualify for transfer and detention at Camp Delta, Guantanamo, prisoners taken in Afghanistan must meet any one of the following criteria:

Be a foreign national;
Have received training from Al-Qaeda; or
Be in command of 300 or more personnel

**Zaknafien** · 05-20-2007, 16:33

hm, just from personal experience in Afghanistan I can attest that battalions are pressured to create a plausible story for each candidate for detention in order to "send them away". I know of many such detainees that were sent to the BTIF and later to Camp Delta on less than solid reasons, and a true lack of anything we in the western world call "evidence".

**Redleg** · 05-20-2007, 17:45

Originally Posted by Zaknafien

hm, just from personal experience in Afghanistan I can attest that battalions are pressured to create a plausible story for each candidate for detention in order to "send them away". I know of many such detainees that were sent to the BTIF and later to Camp Delta on less than solid reasons, and a true lack of anything we in the western world call "evidence".

Then as a soldier you should provide evidence to Congress - via your congressman that illegal activities are being conducted. By not doing so you are complaciant in any illegal activity.

But then plausible implies a believable theory - so which one is it - is it completely made up or is it at least plausible evidence that would support an initial charge?

You can't have it both ways if your directly involved in the situation. ITs either one or the other.

**Lemur** · 05-22-2007, 04:50

If anyone actually cares, the techniques used in "enhanced interrogation" have been documented. Extensively. And these are the approved ones, not even touching on some of the weird stuff going down in places like Gitmo and Abu Ghraib.

The CIA sources described a list of six "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques" instituted in mid-March 2002 and used, they said, on a dozen top al Qaeda targets incarcerated in isolation at secret locations on military bases in regions from Asia to Eastern Europe. According to the sources, only a handful of CIA interrogators are trained and authorized to use the techniques:

1. The Attention Grab: The interrogator forcefully grabs the shirt front of the prisoner and shakes him.

2. Attention Slap: An open-handed slap aimed at causing pain and triggering fear.

3. The Belly Slap: A hard open-handed slap to the stomach. The aim is to cause pain, but not internal injury. Doctors consulted advised against using a punch, which could cause lasting internal damage.

4. Long Time Standing: This technique is described as among the most effective. Prisoners are forced to stand, handcuffed and with their feet shackled to an eye bolt in the floor for more than 40 hours. Exhaustion and sleep deprivation are effective in yielding confessions.

5. The Cold Cell: The prisoner is left to stand naked in a cell kept near 50 degrees. Throughout the time in the cell the prisoner is doused with cold water.

6. Water Boarding: The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt.

According to the sources, CIA officers who subjected themselves to the water boarding technique lasted an average of 14 seconds before caving in. They said al Qaeda's toughest prisoner, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, won the admiration of interrogators when he was able to last between two and two-and-a-half minutes before begging to confess.

"The person believes they are being killed, and as such, it really amounts to a mock execution, which is illegal under international law," said John Sifton of Human Rights Watch.

**Strike For The South** · 05-20-2007, 15:08

Sure, if they applied. I can't go shoot up a Russian military base and expect them.

Even if these men are illegal combatants why torture them? Doesnt that make us just as bad as the people we are figthing? I thought we were doing this to eradicate horrible people who dont respect basic human rights but its ok for us to do it if there "illegal" combatants?

.

**Zaknafien** · 05-20-2007, 15:15

the time when America stood for liberty and justice for the world is long over, now we're simply a force for mercantilism and imperialist oppression. Its up to patriotic citizens to reclaim our republic and change the epoch to the country's founding ideals.