Are the Romans too Powerful?

[Noir]

Originally posted by cobal2fr
Haaaah, I see. So quoting him extensively was merely an elaborate way to dismiss anything anyone might say that goes against a preconceived conclusion.

Carry on !

Not at all, it was my way (when combined with the bow) to show appreciation to someone i extensively disagree with - and end the issue there (instead of carrying on). Being spirited is a good thing - being overspirited is bad for health though: it gives you wrinkles and other nasty stuff.

[econ21]

Well one thing, Lugoae in EB are not really exactly the same type of troop as the vanilla Warband, the Warband is a basic military unit like Hastati, while Lugoae is a garrison unit (like vanilla Town Watch). I can't say anything about RTR, but for EB, a better unit to compare to might be Gaeroas.

Fair enough - if we take Gaeroas, the table should be revised to be:


EB
hastati attack Gaul at -2; Gaul replies at -10
=> Gaul disadvantaged by -80%
early cohort attacks Gaul at -1; Gaul replies at -12
=> Gaul disadvantaged by -110%

It still looks remarkably like the RTW match up.

I still maintain that by the standards of RTR and EB, Romans (as in Roman infantry) are not too powerful. I suspect is the armour stat that explains their superiority.

Guineawolf - I'm not convinced weapon type is relevant here. It's invariant across the three variants for these units. (Although EB does give the warbands javelins, which is a big help).

[Aradan]

Spearmen have lethality at 0.73 iirc and two-handers at 0.87... To compensate for a specific model skeleton issue both have (the spears to a greater degree), that's terribly unbalancing.

[Phoenix]

I think that the 2-handers do pretty good even with the 0.87 lethality they get, it's the Spears that have a lethality of 0.73 that are hopelessly underpowered.

To answer the topic's question, I felt the Romans were so overpowered that I modded Legionary Cavalry, Praetorian Cavalry, and Urban Cohorts out of my game and lowered the armor rating of Lorica Segmentata units to 10, although I raised the melee/pilum attacks of Legionary Cohorts to 10/14 since I thought that after the changes they were losing to Chosen Swordsmen too easily. First time I personally modded a game, but I'm glad I did.

[Shieldmaiden]

I felt the Romans were so overpowered that I modded Legionary Cavalry, Praetorian Cavalry, and Urban Cohorts out of my game

Yes, I felt a bit like that.

I'm modding and limiting recruitment of a Praetorian Cohort and Praetorian Cavalry to Italy, and an Urban Cohort to Carthage, Lugdunum, and Rome. 5th Level Barracks and Stables now give a +1 Exp to a Legionary Cohort and Legionary Cavalry.

Hopefully more historical, and better balanced IMHO

[guineawolf]

I am running vanilla RTW at 1.5. To compare the troop qualities of the Greeks and the Romans I created a custom battle with one army of only Spartan hoplites, all upgraded veterans, and another army of Roman troops, all of which were Legionary 1st Cohorts, upgraded to the max. The Spartans were defending an unwalled minor city, sort of like Sparta in the 'Siege of Sparta' historical battle. According to their unit card description, they are 'perfect soldiers'. However, in reality, they were massacred to the last man by my endless waves of Roman legionnaires, even when I set the difficulty to the highest possible level. Even though this was not really a formal, scientific, closed-system no-variable experiment, the fact that these Roman legionnaires could basically chew up and spit out the very, very, very, very best the Greek cities can offer chills me. Does anyone else recognize this problem?

with what i have figured out recently,i got such conclusion:
your Spartans:
28 attack(since against legion=infantry,decrease 4 attack)=24 attack

6 armor
18 defense skill
5 shields
=29 defense


Legion 1st cohorts:
21 attack
25 missiles

15 armor
14 defense skill
5 shields
=34 defense


but it seems Spartans just lost becoz of their low level equipments,let see if they have same level equipments:
Spartans:
still 24 attack

but with 15 armor
18 defense skill
5 shields
=38 defense

exellent morale=14 morale
very good stamina


legion 1st cohorts:
21 attack
25 missiles

15 armor
14 defense skill
5 shields
=34 defense

good morale=10 morale
good stamina

and Spartans got exellent morale and very good stamina that let Spartans fight longer compare to others,yes Spartans are perfect soldiers if they get same protection from their armor as legion does..
Urban cohorts only got 12 morale....

Yes other factions have no chance against romans. They have the best infantry, reasonable cavalry and archers. Egypt might be the second best faction. Rest are barbarians or only phalanx nations. In that perspective RTW is unbalanced . In M2TW theres no supreme faction.

They have the best equip and best train infantry......