Hotseat Mode

[Ulstan]

Real Time games are no more realistic than turn based games.

In fact, real time games to me are more likely to be simplified 'kiddie fodder', while turn based games are more likely to be able to capture the length and breadth of complexity needed to even halfway approach 'realism.' You can just fit so much more into a turn based game: all those interactions and options and choices put into a real time game would not be practical.

There's certainly a place for real time games, and I'm sure everyone has spent many happy hours playing C&C, Starcraft, Warcraft, etc, but I am not at all convinced that real time games are 'better' than turn based. They are certainly almost always less able to model realism.

In any case, the hybrid turn based but real time battles MTW has is perfect, and it would be an astonishing failure if it was shoehorned into a RTS all the time game.

Obviously, it would not be possible for two players to play battles against eac other in Hotseat mode but I had hoped it would have allowed all battles against the AI to be played.

This is what I hope as well. Then my brother and I could play and each have our own separate empire at opposite ends of the world and race to victory :D It would be such great fun.

[Didz]

There's certainly a place for real time games, and I'm sure everyone has spent many happy hours playing C&C, Starcraft, Warcraft, etc, but I am not at all convinced that real time games are 'better' than turn based. They are certainly almost always less able to model realism.

Exactly, there are times after a hard day int he office when you just want to come home and kill stuff. Thats when games like Command and Conquer or Dawn of War come into their own, work the process, build the super-units and massacre everyone. Games like World of Warcraft and Call of Duty are bit more stressful in that the opposition are normally good as you are but they do have the advantage of allowing team and social play so its possible merely to use them as an interactive social gathering. (Well not so much Call of Duty 2 as standing around talking is bound to get you shot)

I wouldn't class any game as age related, personally I play different games depending what mood I'm in. My son and I were actually having great fun at the weekend playing Doom and I occassionally like playing Warcraft 3 custom games like Airstrike and Massacre TD just for fun.

However, the Totalwar series is a pretty unique combination of indepth campaign strategy with real-time tactical battles and its an awesome combination which combinesthe depth of games like Civilisation with the visual appeal of Cossacks2 or AoE. In many respects its actually superior to tabletop wargaming.

Its only shortcoming has always been the lack of a multplayer capability for the campaigns and thats really the only reason it hasn't displaced all the old hex based games like the Battleground Series which still get used as campaign systems by serious wargamers.

[Razor1952]

We're somewhat off the the topic, but by and large I agree with Didz, but the discussion is interesting.

I myself started off playing aoe and KKNd and thought turn based games were silly, then came Caesar 3, Civ3/4, Totalwarseries, Stronghold, C&C series and Railroad tycoon, these all allowed a much better consideration of strategy.

But MTW2 is I think the first I game I have actually played where the imperatives of the game dictated my mooves(and allowed my free expression of a playing role). Rather than trying to win I found myself wondering what I as King whosoever would have done, extraordinary really.

As a contra however I sometimes play against my son and his mates in a james bond shoot'em up, (Playstation) Of course I'm hopeless and the boys make a beeline to rack up an easy kill before taking each other on again.Sigh!

[rorarii]

I'm not going to waste anymore of my time. I can see a plethora of assumptions you've made, that I didn't make! I could spend ages countering these assumptions, which I won't. All I will say is wait and watch. It's all down to game design.

If TW wants to compete it will need at least an online option.

And if you think all online gamers are - quote " ..with no lives and commode in their computer room .." then that speaks for itself.


R

[Foz]

If TW wants to compete it will need at least an online option.

On what do you base that? The fact that you want an online option? In case you haven't noticed, you do not equal everyone, nor does CA live or die on what you want. There will always be call for both single player games and multiplayer ones. The TW series just happens to have a huge following of primarily single-player gamers, or at least gamers that enjoy it as a single-player game. It has some multiplayer ones as well who are constantly trying to push their own agenda, but in general I don't hear huge outcries from the single player community begging for the game to be multiplayer (I'm not counting the currently multiplayer as real, because it's not what most people that want multiplayer really have in mind - they want campaign multi). I myself absolutely despise most online games that demand constant social interaction - one of the reasons I am often gaming is explicitly to avoid having to deal with other people for a while, and I especially abhor the general immaturity of many online gamers in both language and conduct. Nothing can ruin a great game as fast as another player if they decide to do so, and they all-too-frequently do in most online play communities I've played in. I do still play online games some in spite of that, but I will likewise continue to need good single player games to provide needed reprieves from the frequent grinding of Internet play. TW games fit that bill wonderfully, and frankly I too would be upset if CA took the series in a different direction, especially after showing such remarkable success and aptitude in the single-player realm. Just because something (in this case Internet multiplayer) is a popular craze doesn't mean that anything that doesn't conform is immediately inferior, and I applaud CA for focusing instead on what has always been the bread and butter of this series: the actual single player game. To do differently would draw focus and effort away from the best part of the series, in turn alienating many TW fans, and ultimately damaging the TW brand, possibly irreparably. I think it's been summed up best a thousand times before: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" ...and TW games sure ain't broke.

[Magraev]

To me online gaming will never be interesting.

I have a 15 year old kid. He plays games on my pc all the time.

Sometimes he plays Counterstrike. When he does that he has earphones on to protect the rest of us from the noise. He stares intently at the screen and is very hard to reach for silly stuff like dinner or bedtime.

Sometimes he plays M2TW with me, last using the new hotseat mode, playing as allies. We sit and chat and discuss what to do. We even talk about stuff from RL! Sometimes we do less than bright things because they feel right.

No doubt he prefers CS, but I think M2TW enables a great quality time together that is otherwise hard to get.

EDIT: I got cut off before finishing - shouldn't be here and at work at the same time...
My point is that realtime online games demand your total attention, and that is not something I can give gaming anymore. The wife and kid demand my attention regularly, and I have to be able to come and go. Therefore M2TW is great for me.
I do play games online, like the empirebuilding "Travian" (try it, it's a lot of fun). But that is a different kind of game.

I would still love to fight the defensive battles though!!!

[Didz]

And if you think all online gamers are - quote " ..with no lives and commode in their computer room .." then that speaks for itself.

Never said that...what I said was that if you expect to be able to play a game like MTW2 online in real time you would need to have no life and a commode in your bedroom becuase it would require in excess of 35 days non-stop online play to complete.

I play World of Warcraft so I'm well aware of the commitments required for online team play in instance raids etc. Its never going to happen if the Totalwar series wants to keep its market niche, the only way it would work is if the game was changed to become like Age of Empires, Cossacks2 or Europa Universalis, in which case I wouldn't bother buying it.

The TW series just happens to have a huge following of primarily single-player gamers, or at least gamers that enjoy it as a single-player game.

Exactly, the recent poll confirmed that. There are plenty of game options for when you fancy the low strategy quick fix of a real time game I frequently play Dungeon Keeper 2 or Settlers when I just want a quick low brain effort game. MTW2 provides a more flexible option for those who like to immerse themselves in the subject matter without going into the full on cerebral commitment required by games like Hearts of Iron or Crown and Glory.

I myself absolutely despise most online games that demand constant social interaction - one of the reasons I am often gaming is explicitly to avoid having to deal with other people for a while, and I especially abhor the general immaturity of many online gamers in both language and conduct. Nothing can ruin a great game as fast as another player if they decide to do so, and they all-too-frequently do in most online play communities I've played in.

Griefers...the game within the game. Yep! you get them everywhere. Its the moment when you wish your PC had a 'fist in the face' button that would operate remotely through the other players screen. They are undoubtely the scum around the edge of the toilet bowl when it comes to online gaming and one can only wonder at what sort of person they must be in real life.

I applaud CA for focusing instead on what has always been the bread and butter of this series: the actual single player game. To do differently would draw focus and effort away from the best part of the series, in turn alienating many TW fans, and ultimately damaging the TW brand, possibly irreparably. I think it's been summed up best a thousand times before: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" ...and TW games sure ain't broke.

Hear! Hear! nicely put Foz. Though I would still like some way of playing the campaign game against other human players, as PBEM or Hotseat. of course.