Deal Struck on Immigration Bill

[Pindar]

The amazing element to this is McCain. This is Presidential aspiration suicide for the fellow. His active support demonstrates a fundamental disconnect between himself and the core of the Party. It is this core that is most influential during the Party's Primary process.

[Odin]

The amazing element to this is McCain. This is Presidential aspiration suicide for the fellow. His active support demonstrates a fundamental disconnect between himself and the core of the Party. It is this core that is most influential during the Party's Primary process.

Nice observation Pindar...

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I do disagree with Gwain on one point, it wasnt the Dems exclusively mate, Mr Bush has signed on as well, this is a pro business move the way it read to me, and all politicians like their cash.

I said the republicans are just as much to blame as they let them in for the corporate welfare end of it.

They are tolerable criminals. I'd rather be a criminal in one country rather than starve to death in a another one.

Whats tolerable? Good it be subjective?

Where did I say we needed them?

Maybe in your language nessecity has a different meaning.

I'm say that this country is built upon immigrants and we should continue that long held tradition.

I doubt you will get an argument from anyone here on that. As long as you specify its built on legal ones not illegal. Nice try at an end run though.

Many are simply willing to work for this labor though because their standard of living will be greatly enhanced over where they came from.

You mean like many are willing to rob stores because their standard of living will be greatly enhanced over where they came from? That makes it ok. Any one whos poor can disobey the law? Heck I dont even favor that for our poor never mind illegals who sneak in here.

Sure, why not ? Pulls the rug under the drug syndicates if nothing else, when their insanely value-added main product is suddenly available legally at a fraction of the old price...

At least we can agree on somethings

[rotorgun]

I don't think that many of the "illegals" really want to become citizens. With the low wages they make, they would be on the bottom of the economic ladder in this country. With such earnings that an 8-10 dollar-an-hour job provide, there is little chance that any with a family could really afford to live well enough in this country. These wages, husbanded and sent home by a thrifty worker to his family in Mexico, allow for a substantial quality of life there. For those who are using these jobs as a springboard to something better, it is possible that an offer of citizenship will be attractive.

As for those who are true criminals and are here, legally or not, I say process them and ship them out. These people (and any terrorists) are a danger to us, and for that reason alone I am for much increased border security. I am for the comprimise only if these issues are dealt with in the bill. Let's move on to something more productive, like ending the killing in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[Ice]

Whats tolerable? Good it be subjective?

What? To answer your first question, escaping poverty for a better life is tolerable.

Maybe in your language nessecity has a different meaning.

My language? We are both speaking English. Now if you mean, word choice, lexicon, or dictionary, than I'll agree.

I doubt you will get an argument from anyone here on that. As long as you specify its built on legal ones not illegal. Nice try at an end run though.

Haha.

You mean like many are willing to rob stores because their standard of living will be greatly enhanced over where they came from? That makes it ok. Any one whos poor can disobey the law? Heck I dont even favor that for our poor never mind illegals who sneak in here.

You are equating armed robbery with trying to immigrate to a country illegally to escape poverty.

[Don Corleone]

The amazing element to this is McCain. This is Presidential aspiration suicide for the fellow. His active support demonstrates a fundamental disconnect between himself and the core of the Party. It is this core that is most influential during the Party's Primary process.

I suspect he realizes he's not going to get the Republican nomination. He's not conservative enough on a bunch of issues, and in many ways, he's more of a tax-and-spend Big-Brother than most Democrats. I believe this is the unofficial launch of his effort to successfully mount a 3rd party campaign.

For the record, I am now convinced that at the core party level, there is no difference between Republicans and Democrats. I always suspected they were more alike than different, but this issue cuts to core values. Republicans, at the end of the day, are about 2 things: limited government (anybody check the cost of Medicaid Part D lately) and law-and-order. With this bill, they've now effectively surrendered any distinction.

We actually need a 3rd party, but that whack job dictator-wanna-be is far from the 3rd party I have in mind.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I suspect he realizes he's not going to get the Republican nomination. He's not conservative enough on a bunch of issues, and in many ways, he's more of a tax-and-spend Big-Brother than most Democrats. I believe this is the unofficial launch of his effort to successfully mount a 3rd party campaign.

Now this is where things get scary. This is the Dems only shot at winning the presidency. Gah Hillary as president. What a horrible thought.

[Xiahou]

I suspect he realizes he's not going to get the Republican nomination. He's not conservative enough on a bunch of issues, and in many ways, he's more of a tax-and-spend Big-Brother than most Democrats. I believe this is the unofficial launch of his effort to successfully mount a 3rd party campaign.

McCain's explosive temper worries me as much as his anti-free speech track record. He definitely doesn't need to be president.

During a meeting Thursday on immigration legislation, McCain and Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) got into a shouting match when Cornyn started voicing concerns about the number of judicial appeals that illegal immigrants could receive, according to multiple sources -- both Democrats and Republicans -- who heard firsthand accounts of the exchange from lawmakers who were in the room.

At a bipartisan gathering in an ornate meeting room just off the Senate floor, McCain complained that Cornyn was raising petty objections to a compromise plan being worked out between Senate Republicans and Democrats and the White House. He used a curse word associated with chickens and accused Cornyn of raising the issue just to torpedo a deal.

Things got really heated when Cornyn accused McCain of being too busy campaigning for president to take part in the negotiations, which have gone on for months behind closed doors. "Wait a second here," Cornyn said to McCain. "I've been sitting in here for all of these negotiations and you just parachute in here on the last day. You're out of line."

McCain, a former Navy pilot, then used language more accustomed to sailors (not to mention the current vice president, who made news a few years back after a verbal encounter with Sen. Patrick Leahy of Vermont).

"[Expletive] you! I know more about this than anyone else in the room," shouted McCain at Cornyn. McCain helped craft a bill in 2006 that passed the Senate but couldn't be compromised with a House bill that was much tougher on illegal immigrants.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/capit..._showdown.html

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

It's over, America, we had a good run.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

What? To answer your first question, escaping poverty for a better life is tolerable.

Entering my country to do it is not. Should we take in all the poor of the world?

ou are equating armed robbery with trying to immigrate to a country illegally to escape poverty.

Armed robbery? How about just going into a store and taking stuff on the sly? The point is their trying to accomplish the samething. Feed themselves and their families and make a better life for themselves. I find these people more tolerable than your illegal immigrants. At least their americans. So yes tolerable is subjective.

[ShadeHonestus]

Entering my country to do it is not. Should we take in all the poor of the world?

Word on the street is that Ireland is the place to be, lets give them free boat passage there and see how the Irish deal with it. Isn't any place in Europe suppose to be a Utopia compared to the U.S.? I've actually heard innuendo on this very board that pre-war Iraq wasn't so bad, lets get a time machine and ship them all there, I'm sure they'd accept those theories and go willingly.

Surprised Mencia hasn't picked up on this yet.

[Watchman]

You do know we get a whole lot of illegals here too, do you ? Especially in the countries bordering on the poor countries, like now Spain and Portugal ?

Or are you just trying for martyr points ?

[Ice]

Entering my country to do it is not. Should we take in all the poor of the world?

I believe you mean "our" country. Anyway, I'm not saying we should take on the poor of the world. A couple million immigrants is hardly the world's poor. Besides, there are numerous advantages to Americans by gaining cheap labor, at least for a while.

Armed robbery? How about just going into a store and taking stuff on the sly?

If you are starving to death and have no other way, then yes. That is very tolerable.

I find these people more tolerable than your illegal immigrants. At least their americans. So yes tolerable is subjective.

First, I'm failing to see how these are my illegal immigrants. Your language in your posts is most interesting. Second, who cares if they are not Americans?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I believe you mean "our" country.

It was mine first.

A couple million immigrants is hardly the world's poor.

Where does it stop. Why have immigration laws at all then? What makes Mexicans special?

If you are starving to death and have no other way, then yes. That is very tolerable.

So we should reward thieves? We shouldnt punish them if caught stealing?

First, I'm failing to see how these are my illegal immigrants

Because you want them and I dont. That makes them yours.

Second, who cares if they are not Americans?

So your in favor of open borders?

[ShadeHonestus]

The amazing element to this is McCain. This is Presidential aspiration suicide for the fellow. His active support demonstrates a fundamental disconnect between himself and the core of the Party. It is this core that is most influential during the Party's Primary process.

The telling element to this is the illegal immigrants protesting. Rinse and repeat, we'll be right back where we are at now in 10 years. The question being how many will we legalize en masse then?