Another reason not to vote.

[caravel]

Once again, it looks like you're going to have to rely on the Lords to toss this bill right back.

The real trouble is that politicians know they can get away with this because nobody really cares. Unless the news was tattooed across the assets of the Page 3 girl, most voters will skip right past this to the FA Cup report.

Yes, sadly your words are all too true. The majority are probably more interested in the latest Eastenders or Coronation St sensationalist storyline than Brown succeeding Blair. Due to this ignorance Labour can basically get away with murder in today's political climate so long as they don't hit big business.

I say revoke the parliament act and every law since WWII.

It's just been down hill for the last 60 years really. Although you can't blame the politicians alone. How can you be enthusiastic about a country which once ruled over a quater of the globe whos' wealth and military might made it feared and respected the world over but which can now no longer even manage to define it's own culture.

Britain is dieing and I can't really blame those who want to make some money before we slide down the plug hole.

The problem I have is working out how to stop us sliding down that dank drain pipe known as oblivion.

I agree. The British have no national pride, because they no longer have any culture. This has been long since sterilised and neutralised out of existence.

The tiny bit of nationalistic pride that remains surfaces during international sporting events, mainly football, and that's it really. The problem is that for the last few decades we've had nothing but nonsense spouted from the politically correct dept, about just how evil, ignorant and racist the white working class are and how sorry they should be for how they have treated others in the past. National or cultural pride has been portrayed as synonymous with racism and Nazism - so it's just not in fashion and very vulgar, but only in Britain - other countries' nationalism is perfectly acceptable - even to the British - and they don't get their flags taken down by the local coppers. During all of this the country has been rapidly sliding into the abyss of excessive bureaucracy, and social, cultural and industrial disaster. I have never seen such joblessness, crime, vice and poverty.

Wherever you go in the world there are religious, cultural or national days, ceremonies, festivals processions etc. The most notable in England are minority events, not English at all. St George's Day is a non entity that the do-gooders have tried their damnedest to ban altogether in case it upsets Muslims, despite the fact that I've never met a Muslim yet that is upset by St Georges Day celebrations or would be upset by them if they were held.

The populace no longer care, because there is nothing to care about - hence voter apathy. This is why Blair and his clowns have been able to royally ____ up the country since '97 and his predecessors were able to do the same thing before that. They have a free ride at our expense and are loving every minute of it.

[Banquo's Ghost]

YThe populace no longer care, because there is nothing to care about - hence voter apathy. This is why Blair and his clowns have been able to royally ____ up the country since '97 and his predecessors were able to do the same thing before that. They have a free ride at our expense and are loving every minute of it.

I should modify my own rather gloomy analysis to add that the real problem for the UK is the lack of a decent opposition. The effect was first seen when Mrs Thatcher came to power and the Labour party imploded into its own navel. Because there was little fear of an erudite and principled opposition forcing the executive to think on its feet, the Tory government was able to get away with some pretty serious transgressions.

Having said that, the Thatcher years were also characterised by a diverse and independent press, at least some of which was left-wing. Her own party contained some brilliant thinkers and rebels, and there were outstanding constituency MPs dedicated to their own voters more than the party. It wasn't wall-to-wall lawyers noted only for careerism and mediocrity. The House of Lords was, despite domination by apparent shire conservatives, populated by largely hereditary peers not beholden to patronage by cheque book - and actually, being old-school Tories, quite antithetical to the middle class populist conservatism that Maggie pushed.

The poll-tax was oveturned by popular uprising allied to these dissenting voices, for example.

In Blair's Britain, a million people turning out to oppose the war or the fox-hunting bill were shrugged away because they had no representatives - government or opposition benches, to challenge on their behalf. The Conservative Party is still dead in the water as an opposition and often as complicit as the New Labour backbenchers in looking first to career and perks - it's a conservative that proposed and steered through this appalling bill, for example, and Cameron has done nothing to distance himself, let alone oppose.

The intellectual quality of MPs is at an all time low - can anyone name the modern equivalents of the St John Stevases or Enoch Powells, or Wedgie Benns? The Lords is full of pay-as-you-go careerists who either failed as full-time politicians or got on telly a lot, balanced by walking cheque books. The Opposition, like the government, is concerned only with gaining power, not the principles upon which why they want that power.

In common with many democracies, the so-called "elite" (more properly termed the meritocratic mediocrities) have consorted to disenfranchise the electorate by making politics so irrelevant and boring that most people can't be bothered. Even if they are so motivated, the politicians can't bring themselves to support popular challenges in case the power really does revert to the people.

Somehow, you need to get a real opposition. How the "natural party of government" has got itself into this mess escapes me - well, it doesn't really, they continually guaranteed themselves oblivion by refusing to elect Ken Clarke as leader because he had a life and was fond of Frenchies.

[InsaneApache]

Nice observation BQ, I agree with most of what you said. Since New Labour moved to the centre/right/left there has not been so much as a cigarette paper you could put between the main two parties.

I remember as a teenager arguing in the pub with some of my mates about the Tories and Labour. In those days there was a sizable gap in their political credo.

The choice back then was 'Iron' Maggie or 'Sunny' Jim. After the disastrous economic policies of the Wilson regime and the not-so-enlightened income and prices policy, I knew which one I was going to vote for. (I was laid off 3 times in 1978/9).

One thing though. Ken Clarke was too much a eurosweetie for my tastes. I think the Tories missed a trick with Portillo.

[Banquo's Ghost]

One thing though. Ken Clarke was too much a eurosweetie for my tastes. I think the Tories missed a trick with Portillo.

Therein lies the tragedy of Mr Clarke and the Tory party. Europe was never going to go away, but if they were in power they might have made the European Onion more in the image of a conservative vision than the federalist one. Out of power they can do nothing - about anything. The Onion was always a red herring to a bull.

But I agree with you about Portillo. He could have worked wonders, and had a brain - now devoted to TV and Classic FM rather than the good of the country. Sadly, he was subject to the other prejudice that plagues the Conservative Party.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Portillo only looked good once he got off the front benches, I agree though. Put him in charge and I'll join the Conservative party, not just vote for them.

The thing with Ken Clarke was always going to be Europe, if he could have kept it lower on the agenda maybe he would have got away with it. Sadly it was not to be.

I had hoped Cameron was going to be better, a lot of fuss has been made over him being a "Toff" well at least he's not a working class man, i.e. a real Conservative Blair. His refusal to make too many promises did give me some hope as it meant he hadn't over compromised himself. Then the Darfur thing came to light and most of that hope died.

I'm holding out for Boris though.

[InsaneApache]

I'm holding out for Boris though.

Ahh...the politician who revels in upsetting the chattering classes.

The voice of reason.