Just to illustrate that religious excess in response to perceived insults is not the exclusive province of muslims, many of the Sikhs of Punjab are rising to protest an impersonation of one of their gurus.
It appears that whilst images of the gurus are allowed, dressing up as one is not. It also appears that charismatic poverty-embrcaing Sikh leaders are fond of Mercedes-Benz cars too.
Cult leader sparks Sikh riots with 'guru' stunt
By Jerome Taylor
Published: 21 May 2007
The Indian state of Punjab has been set alight by some of the worst rioting in a decade after a newspaper advert placed by the leader of a controversial religious sect sparked outrage in the region's Sikh community.
One person was killed and more than 50 were injured after tens of thousands of angry Sikhs, many armed with their ceremonial kirpan daggers, went on the rampage across Punjab and the neighbouring state of Haryana.
India's Prime Minister, Manmohan Singh, appealed for calm and put the army on standby as the central government sent thousands of police to the region.
The rioting broke out after the Dera Sacha Sauda sect, a non-profit group that combines social work with spirituality, placed an advert in a local newspaper showing its leader, Baba Gurmeet Singh, allegedly impersonating Sikhism's 10th and last guru, an act most Sikhs would consider deeply offensive.
The advert appeared to show Gurmeet Singh administering a special nectar, known as Jaam-e-Insaan, to his followers while wearing the same long robes worn by the guru, Guru Gobind Singh - who was also known to baptise believers with nectar. Unlike Islam, where picturing the Prophet Mohamed is strictly forbidden, most Sikhs believe it is permissible to picture their gurus, and families often place a picture of the religion's founding father, Guru Nanak Dev, somewhere in their homes. But pretending to be a guru is strictly forbidden.
"Impersonating a Sikh guru always runs the risk of outraging even the most moderate of sikhs," says Jagtar Singh of the Sikh Federation's UK branch. "Even if our schoolchildren were putting on a play about the gurus, we would never get anyone to actually play the role of one.
"Most Sikh groups believe Guru Gobind Singh was the final guru. Some people have since claimed themselves to be living gurus, something which is deeply offensive to most Sikhs."
Gurmeet Singh insists he has done nothing wrong and has refused to apologise for the advert. "I wear whatever my followers give me to wear," he told the New Indian Express from his sect's headquarters in Sirsa, Haryana. "My robes can match anybody's. They don't indicate my inclination towards any particular religion. All religions are the same."
His supporters rejected accusations that he was trying to impersonate the guru. But yesterday police filed a complaint against the sect's leader for hurting religious sentiment, a charge often used in a country where religious differences regularly set off violence.
The Central Bureau of Intelligence, India's equivalent to the FBI, also says Gurmeet Singh is a prime suspect in the murder of an Indian journalist who accused the sect of brainwashing women and sexually assaulting them in 2002.
Many say the rapid response of India's government to the crisis shows their fears that the riots have transformed into a wider protest against what many Sikhs say is the way they are discriminated against by the government.
"The recent protests really have mushroomed into something much bigger," says Jagtar Singh, whose organisation campaigns for the creation of a Sikh homeland called Khalistan.
"There have already been incidents where protesters have been chanting the word 'Khalistan'. The feeling is that now is a good time to protest against the government over Sikh human rights. As long as it remains a political agitation for Sikh rights, we support that. When there is violence, we'll condemn it."
The sect leader
* Whether he's dressed in bright, flowing robes reminiscent of an ancient maharaja, or in the white cloth of a wandering aesthetic, Baba Gurmeet Singh Ram Raheem, who spends much of his time living in a cave on his ashram, has always been a controversial figure. Although his organisation says it discourages donations his favourite mode of transport is a fleet of Mercedes cars, protected by up to 25 bodyguards.
* In 2002, his sect was accused of brainwashing and sexually assaulting female followers. Gurmeet Singh, who prefers his acolytes to call him by his somewhat laborious full title Huzoor Maharaj Sant Gurmeet Ram Raheem Singh Ji, is currently being investigated by police over rape and murder allegations.
* He recently clashed with the Punjab's state government after urging followers to vote for the Congress party, which forms the opposition there. But supporters say his message that all religions are equal attracts hundreds of thousands of genuine followers from low-caste Hindu families as well as from the region's Christian and Sikh communities.
"If there is a sin against life, it consists not so much in despairing as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this one." Albert Camus "Noces"
There's a certain irony that sikhism arose as an attempt to reconcile historical religious conflicts between Hindus and Muslims in India. That's the big problem with religions - an assumed divine sanction for any misdemeanor you want to commit.
I think the shooting of abortion clinic staff is enough to take Christians off that list, Frag
And if I hear anyone saying Stephen Hawking talks funny, my posse will be out on the streets with Molotovs
Well now we know the extent of your knowledge pertaining to the major religions of the world.
Well we have just established that religious excess in response to perceived insults is not the exclusive province of muslims, do I need more? Maybe I should buy more books on it, always handy when I just can't reach the cookies on the upper shelve.
Anything unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Texan by birth, woodpecker by the grace of God
I would be the voice of your conscience if you had one -Brenus
Bt why woulf we uy lsn'y Staraft - Fragony
Not everything blue and underlined is a link
think the shooting of abortion clinic staff is enough to take Christians off that list, Frag
Yeah theres thousands of these christian freaks running about killing people. People of ever religion or none have done bad things in their relgions names or their secular causes. Were talking mass actions here not those of single individuals.
Were talking mass actions here not those of single individuals.
...how far back in time would you like to go ?
"Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."
Maybe we should conduct a backroom poll and decide that way.....
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
This could be taken as a personal insult. But isnt this thread about today? Now where crossing off christianity because of things that happened hundreds of years ago? In reality most of the bad things identified with christians came from the take over of the religion by Rome. Until then they had no power.
This could be taken as a personal insult. But isnt this thread about today? Now where crossing off christianity because of things that happened hundreds of years ago? In reality most of the bad things identified with christians came from the take over of the religion by Rome. Until then they had no power.
NO ONE is sending my mate big G anywhere back in time. OK?
On reflection, I have nothing against religion, so long as it has no political power. Render unto Caesar etc.
Unfortunately religions seem inevitably to offer career opportunities, and that's when the trouble starts.
"The only thing I've gotten out of this thread is that Navaros is claiming that Satan gave Man meat. Awesome." Gorebag
Yep and it still goes on today . Would you like some examples .....again ?
Have the LRA for starters , bringing death , mutilation and salvation in the name of the Lord
Perhaps someone could make a sticky of groups that call themselves "Christian" who are not really very nice . It might save time again and again and again
Point of order: The Virginia Tech shooter was 99% likely a paranoid schizophrenic, so you'll have to scratch psychosis off the list, not Christianity.
David Koresh and Jim Jones would be better negative examples, assuming you want to go there.
Oh well, there are a lot more examples of 'Christian' terrorists and militias in today's world and in the past.
It's just one of those things I feel the media decided to quickly skip over. If he would have been a Muslim and had compared himself to Mohammed (err...er someone else important that would make the comparison a little less blasphemous) you can bet it would have been a major point in the news.
Yes, Iraq is peaceful. Go to sleep now. - Adrian II
If he would have been a Muslim and had compared himself to Mohammed.
Actually Muhammed (sbuh) would have probably been disappointed with the fact that Cho didn't loot first and rape the women before he killed the "infidels".
Hey, the Prophet was a pragmatic businessman. Of course he knew the proper order of things is to kill the fighters first and only then proceed to the looting so you don't get rudely interrupted.
Mind you, given the fairly sophisticated Southern Arabian rules of engagement he might well have frowned on the "rape the women" bit as well. They had some curious codes of conduct in these things down there, borne of millenia of almost ritualized low-intensity squabbling.
"Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."
Thousands run riot over religious insults
Originally Posted by Fragony
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