Thousands run riot over religious insults

[Don Corleone]

Oh well, there are a lot more examples of 'Christian' terrorists and militias in today's world and in the past.


It's just one of those things I feel the media decided to quickly skip over. If he would have been a Muslim and had compared himself to Mohammed (err...er someone else important that would make the comparison a little less blasphemous) you can bet it would have been a major point in the news.

I don't know. The dude who shot up a Jewish community center to avenge the killing of muslims (who I think coined the term 'sudden jihad syndrome') ended up being ruled a head-case, giving Islam a pass on that one.

But your point is valid, generally, whack-job Christians are described as Whack-Job christians, where it tends to be whack-job MUSLIMS, which doesn't seem fair.

Anyway, Lemur, your examples aren't valid either. Neither Jim Jones nor David Koresh were true Christians, as they both represented themselves as the Messiah (a big no-no to those of us that actually DO believe). Abortion clinic bombers are really more motivated by an issue (abortion, which they believe to be murder) than a religion as well. But as Trbiesman pointed out, there's all sorts of folks around who actually profess to follow what appears to be an orthodox Christian creed and do commit all sorts of nasty acts, even in the name of said faith.

[PanzerJaeger]

Actually Muhammed (sbuh) would have probably been disappointed with the fact that Cho didn't loot first and rape the women before he killed the "infidels".

[Bijo]

I think this sort of behaviour is sikhening.

Be careful: somebody might take a jab at your pun.

[AntiochusIII]

There's a certain irony that sikhism arose as an attempt to reconcile historical religious conflicts between Hindus and Muslims in India. That's the big problem with religions - an assumed divine sanction for any misdemeanor you want to commit.

To be fair, they sort of got on a bad issue, as in really bad, with the whole Oppress the Sikhs thing from, if I remember correctly, the esteemed Mughal Emperors. Quite a few of the gurus lost their lives the Jesus way, minus the Cross. A few were even de facto insurgency leaders of the Sikhs. Sikhism was and in a way still is the embodiment of Panjabi independence.

That kind of history tends to radicalize faiths.

It surely does not excuse the basic ignorance that faith and mob mentality sometimes provoke in people, though. It's really not that different from that one time when the Beatles were the most hated people evar in the US South because John Lennon thought they were more popular than Jesus when you really think about it. Religion + Crowds With Problems = Baaaaad Recipe.

[CrossLOPER]

This could be taken as a personal insult.

Perhaps in another context, hopefully not this one.

Topic:

So we're back to angry people with centuries worth of problems.

[Louis VI the Fat]

In keeping with the topic of this thread: I don't care what anybody says, we all know there's only one religion that promotes female circumcision, disrupts democratic elections, abducts and beheads its opponents, and stirs up youths to join in an uprising against their western-friendly government....

Linky.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Have the LRA for starters , bringing death , mutilation and salvation in the name of the Lord

Oh yes their world famous. How many thousands of them are there? PS who the hell are they?

But your point is valid, generally, whack-job Christians are described as Whack-Job christians, where it tends to be whack-job MUSLIMS, which doesn't seem fair.

whack-job Christians are described as Whack-Job christians, where it tends to be whack-job MUSLIMS, which doesn't seem fair.
[/QUOTE]

If their both called wack jobs whats unfair? But this is hardly a fair comparison again. You find a few nuts who happen to be christians and compare them to thousnds if not milions of Mulim nut jobs. All these groups are condemened by mainstream christians. This isnt the case in Islam.

Oh well, there are a lot more examples of 'Christian' terrorists and militias in today's world

Give me some significant ones that other Christians dont abhor.

[doc_bean]

Oh yes their world famous. How many thousands of them are there? PS who the hell are they?

For almost 18 years, the so-called ‘Lord’s Resistance Army’ (LRA) has waged war on the Ugandan government and its own people, the Acholi. The robustness of the conflict indicates that the forces working against peace outstrip those working for it. Analysis of the conflict is often reduced to describing the LRA rebellion as the handiwork of a religious fanatic. However, the social disorder that the National Resistance Movement, led by current President Museveni, inherited in 1986 after the downfall of the Acholi-led Okello regime, contained the root causes for continued insurgency. These were amplified by external circumstances that created the operational leeway for rebellion, gathering force in the absence of a credible Acholi political leadership. A deliverance couched in religious discourse resolved the quandary. The emergence and transformation of the LRA can be made comprehensible only in relation, or even in opposition, to the emergence and downfall of the Holy Spirit Mobile Forces (HSMF) as a radical structure of rejection. Millenarian religious justification contextualizes violence and the use of terror as a means of immobilization and control of the population. As the character and composition of the LRA evolved to include the kidnapping of children, and as the terror escalated, the insurgency became increasingly ensnared in a web of internal contradictions. The result is that the LRA has exacerbated the process of dehumanization the HSMF first set out to counter.

Uganda and the Lord’s Resistance Army: the new order no one ordered
Author: Frank Van Acker
Source: African Affairs, Volume 103, Number 412, July 2004, pp. 335-357(23)
Publisher: Oxford University Press

There were up to 7000 up them at one point, more recent estimates put them at 3000-5000 (people with more knowledge on the subject may correct me).

Give me some significant ones that other Christians dont abhor.

Give me one 'muslim' terrorist group that the muslim members of the org don't abhor.

The second part of your demand is impossible to meet since terrorist groups are always fringe groups, or groups operating far away. The IRA was supported by the American Irish for decades before 9/11 happened, for instance. And in fact, there were tied to a religion too, though that is not generally considered the root of the conflict in Northern Ireland.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

For almost 18 years, the so-called ‘Lord’s Resistance Army’ (LRA) has waged war on the Ugandan government and its own people, the Acholi.

And you think they represent christianity? What church do they all belong to?

Give me one 'muslim' terrorist group that the muslim members of the org don't abhor.

Those at the org?

Now thats not fair. How about around the world. I can find you millions of them.

The second part of your demand is impossible to meet since terrorist groups are always fringe groups, or groups operating far away.

WellI have no problem naming many Islamis such groups. In fact their barely on the fringe.

The IRA was supported by the American Irish for decades before 9/11 happened, for instance. And in fact, there were tied to a religion too, though that is not generally considered the root of the conflict in Northern Ireland.

Excatly it was christian vs christian anyway. In reality British vs Irish.

[Don Corleone]

Oh yes their world famous. How many thousands of them are there? PS who the hell are they?

whack-job Christians are described as Whack-Job christians, where it tends to be whack-job MUSLIMS, which doesn't seem fair.

If their both called wack jobs whats unfair? But this is hardly a fair comparison again. You find a few nuts who happen to be christians and compare them to thousnds if not milions of Mulim nut jobs. All these groups are condemened by mainstream christians. This isnt the case in Islam.

You apparently missed the intention of the capitals to convey stress. My point was for a given individual picked up, those of a Christian persuasion tend to be discussed in terms of their deranged state first, then mention is made of their Christian beliefs. Meanwhile, those individuals of a Muslim persuasion tend to be discussed as Muslim first, crazy second.

This is directed at individuals picked up for random acts of craziness here domestically, like the guy who shot the people at the airplane checkin counter a few years back. I wasn't trying to make a statement on populations in the world at large.

[doc_bean]

And you think they represent christianity? What church do they all belong to?

A Christian one, don't know the details, considering the amount of weird churches you USians seem to have I think it's rather unfair to say they don't represent Christianity. Neither do Baptists, Methodists, Quakers, etc.

Those at the org?

Now thats not fair. How about around the world. I can find you millions of them.

Well, people you know personally would do. it's always easy to claim things about people you don't.

WellI have no problem naming many Islamis such groups. In fact their barely on the fringe.

Most of them are small splinter groups, though calling themselves Al Quaida is popular these days, it's not like they're one single organization. None of them match up to the amount of casualties the LRA has caused in the name Jesus though.

EDIT: I'm not saying there aren't more Muslim terrorists these days though, but that hardly makes christians the great peaceful group.

[Tribesman]

Oh yes their world famous. How many thousands of them are there? PS who the hell are they?

do you go out of your way to demonstrate your ignorance or does it just happen?
This could be taken as a personal insult.
now then is that a personal insult or just a comment on the tripe you wrote ?

[Don Corleone]

Excatly it was christian vs christian anyway. In reality British vs Irish.

Oooh, bad play, my friend. You really don't get what that conflict was all about, do you? The British would have been the first ones to get out of Northern Ireland if they didn't have the integrity to defend their citizens. I'm not going to get into a Republican/Unionist debate, but saying Irish Protestants are really British anyway (which I hope isn't what you were implying) is the equivalent of saying that everyone and anyone that sympathizes with Israel must be a Jew.

[Orb]

There is a fundamental difference between Christianity and Islam on this. Christian texts directly condemn the LRA's actions. Islamic ones don't, to my knowledge condemn such actions.

[doc_bean]

There is a fundamental difference between Christianity and Islam on this. Christian texts directly condemn the LRA's actions. Islamic ones don't, to my knowledge condemn such actions.

The LRA would disagree with your statement, obviously.

Some Muslims will probably disagree with the Quo'ran supporting terrorism. I don't know the book well enough to comment, and i have a feeling neither do most people on this board...

[Tribesman]

There is a fundamental difference between Christianity and Islam on this. Christian texts directly condemn the LRA's actions. Islamic ones don't, to my knowledge condemn such actions.

I suggest you read your scripture before you make such ludicrous claims Orb

[Don Corleone]

I think Orb is referring to the New Testament, not the Old. Pretty damn hard to beat Deuteronomy or Leviticus in terms of sheer blood and guts. Heck, for even wearing shirts of any sort of blended fibers, we should all get stoned in the streets, forget about that one lobster at the Memorial Day picnic....

[Gawain of Orkeny]

You apparently missed the intention of the capitals to convey stress. My point was for a given individual picked up, those of a Christian persuasion tend to be discussed in terms of their deranged state first, then mention is made of their Christian beliefs. Meanwhile, those individuals of a Muslim persuasion tend to be discussed as Muslim first, crazy second.

I bet in Islamic states its just the opposite LOL. Your going by our view.

do you go out of your way to demonstrate your ignorance or does it just happen?
This could be taken as a personal insult.
now then is that a personal insult or just a comment on the tripe you wrote ?

If there is anyone who goes around giving veiled and not so veiled personal insults around here its you. Sometimes im amazed they still let you post here. This is just another of your insults.

Oooh, bad play, my friend. You really don't get what that conflict was all about, do you?

I certainly do.

The British would have been the first ones to get out of Northern Ireland if they didn't have the integrity to defend their citizens.

If they got out what citizens of theirs are they going to defend? I suppose you mean the Irish Protestants? Their not english citiznens anymore than any other Irishman are they? The only way religion comes in is because the english invaders were protestant. They could have been buddists it wouldnt have made a difference.

I suggest you read your scripture before you make such ludicrous claims Orb

Then I suggest you do the same and this time learn their true meaning.

[Don Corleone]

Gawain, I don't want to hijack this thread, so I'm going to start a different one. Please follow me over there.

[Tribesman]

This is just another of your insults.

Nope , it is just a comment noting that you wrote complete rubbish on the subject and the reason that you wrote such tripe is either that you lack knowledge of the subject or you don't want to know about things in case they conflict with your preconceptions .

Then I suggest you do the same and this time learn their true meaning.

oh lordy errr ...you have read the Bible haven't you ? or are you just going on what you want to think is written in it .

I certainly do.

Oh no , its Gawain the oirish republican again

If they got out what citizens of theirs are they going to defend? I suppose you mean the Irish Protestants? Their not english citiznens anymore than any other Irishman are they?

God save us from the narrowbacks

[Husar]

If they say Old Testament > New Testament, that makes them Jews, not Christians, no?
For Christians it's New Testament > Old Testament and the opinion of Jesus concerning violence should be pretty clear as long as one is not illiterate, remember, Christian is rather similar to Christ and that is because what he said should be above everything else for a Christian.

The LRA obviously does not understand that and they can call themselves whatever they want, they're not Christians. If I call myself an American from today and swear an oath on the US constitution, does that make me a US citizen?
(ok, very bad comparison, doesn't even work that way, but if there is a God, he has similar mempbership rules as the US and so in his book, the LRA would not be Christians and since he would decide in the end, etc. pp.)

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Nope , it is just a comment noting that you wrote complete rubbish on the subject

On what subject what that be? For once in your life be specific. Exactly what rubbish?

and the reason that you wrote such tripe is either that you lack knowledge of the subject or you don't want to know about things in case they conflict with your preconceptions .

Sure I could have looked it up but I figured Id ask. Just what conflict are you speaking of anyway?

oh lordy errr ...you have read the Bible haven't you ? or are you just going on what you want to think is written in it .

New Testament. Find me where Jesus says to kill the unbeliever.

Oh no , its Gawain the oirish republican again

Im certainly no republican and Im far more of a centerist you are.

[AntiochusIII]

The LRA obviously does not understand that and they can call themselves whatever they want, they're not Christians. If I call myself an American from today and swear an oath on the US constitution, does that make me a US citizen?
(ok, very bad comparison, doesn't even work that way, but if there is a God, he has similar mempbership rules as the US and so in his book, the LRA would not be Christians and since he would decide in the end, etc. pp.)

So, if John Buchanan, East Lansing, Baptist, is not responsible for the actions of the LRA, why should Ghassan Ahmed, Cairo, Sunni, be responsible for Al-Qaida?

Chaos and suffering produce madmen. Madmen propagate chaos and suffering. All in God's Holy Name. It's almost pretty if you ask me. Curious, though, that a thread about how radicalized Sikhism has become is directed towards more Islam criticism, again.

[Watchman]

Would you like me to state the obvious behind that ?

[ShadeHonestus]

yes

-edit-
Iowa is above Missouri so I'm close to the "show me" principle...

[Watchman]

Some people here seem to hold certain antipathies - dare I say prejudices ? - that have a tendency to show through in a manner some might regard as possibly biased if not one-sided when the talk turns to certain kinds of topics.

I could also give a less sanitized version, but that'd probably net me an admin warning for breach of etiquette.

[ShadeHonestus]

I could also give a less sanitized version, but that'd probably net me an admin warning for breach of etiquette.

Vegas had it at even odds which version would show up until mods tipped off the odds makers that behaviour here has been good lately. Needless to say my bet didn't pay off as high as it should have.

[Husar]

why should Ghassan Ahmed, Cairo, Sunni, be responsible for Al-Qaida?

I didn't say that he is, I just injected my totally irrelevant opinion on the matter and you may assume now that I do not think all muslims are responsible for the actions of "muslim" terrorists.

[Tribesman]

On what subject what that be? For once in your life be specific. Exactly what rubbish?

Specific eh
Christians don't do that
yes they do
only in ancient times not now
wrong again
but not on a large scale
you did it again
yeah but they aren't really Christian
they say they are
scripture doesn't support that
it does
not that Christian scripture other Christain scripture

quite a pile of tripe once again arising from where you have tried to state something that isn't true then tried to defend it .

BTW

Im certainly no republican and Im far more of a centerist you are.

my comment clearly went way over your head , invest in some stilts

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Vyes they do

Not if their real christians.

they say they are

In name only

it does

Not the New Testament

quite a pile of tripe once again arising from where you have tried to state something that isn't true then tried to defend it .

The old Testament is Jewish scipture not Christian.

my comment clearly went way over your head , invest in some stilts

Maybe if you didnt make up words I could understand you . What the hell is oirish?