Lebanese army slaughtering innocent Palestinians!!!!

[Tribesman]

How many Muslims live in Israel? How many Jews live the surrounding nations?

Good point Gawain .
That country to the south , what terrorist attacks on what targets led to the expulsion of most of the Jewish inhabitants ?
The bloke who took the blame said it was blamed on him because he was the wrong sort of "jew" didn't he

[Gawain of Orkeny]

That country to the south , what terrorist attacks on what targets led to the expulsion of most of the Jewish inhabitants ?
The bloke who took the blame said it was blamed on him because he was the wrong sort of "jew" didn't he

How many Jews are allowed to live in Palestine or Jordan accordding to agreements signed? They never were.

[Tribesman]

How many Jews are allowed to live in Palestine or Jordan accordding to agreements signed? They never were.

errrrrr...according to agreements signed by Israel and Jordan refugees will be allowed to return as part of a full peace settlement . So the Jordanian Jewish refugees can return when the Palestinian refugees are can return .
Or were you thinking of an agreement that only exists in your mind ?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

errrrrr...according to agreements signed by Israel and Jordan refugees will be allowed to return as part of a full peace settlement .

Ever hear of this? Jordanian Nationality Law no. 6 of 1954? How many Jews lived in Trans Jordan in 1946?

[Tribesman]

How many Jews lived in Trans Jordan in 1946?

Do you mean Jordanian Jews or Syrian/Lebanese Jews ?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Do you mean Jordanian Jews or Syrian/Lebanese Jews ?

Take your pick and what of the law i asked about?

[Tribesman]

what of the law i asked about?

superceded by article 8 of the peace agreement .have a clue on the English language Gawain , an agreement means two or more parties are involved , what you are on about doesn't involve two parties .

Take your pick

thats a rather silly thing to say since Churchill put a ban on settlement years before , the only jewish population in transjordan was of syrian/lebanese citizenship

[Gawain of Orkeny]

superceded by article 8 of the peace agreement .have a clue on the English language Gawain , an agreement means two or more parties are involved , what you are on about doesn't involve two parties .

Do you know what "were " means?

thats a rather silly thing to say since Churchill put a ban on settlement years before

But didnt you say that Jews were allowed in Trans Jordan? Or was it Jordan. Either way there were none so how can they return?

[PanzerJaeger]

.have a clue on the English language Gawain ,

You make great points, but you of all people shouldnt be lecturing others on the English language!

[Tribesman]

Do you know what "were " means?

yep can you remember what you wrote ?

But didnt you say that Jews were allowed in Trans Jordan? Or was it Jordan.

can you remember what I wrote ?

Either way there were none so how can they return?

errrrr.....wrong ..try again .It has to do with who was where , where they came from , what citizenship they had and what rules governed which parts of which mandates

[KrooK]

TO express how many Israeli Arabs commited war crimes as a members of Israeli army;

If I remember it well Israeli Arabs didn't serve into army. They were allowed to join as volunteers since about 2000 year.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Just a reminder in this mostly interesting and illuminating thread that posters should strive to avoid personal insults and insinuations of ignorance.

For those who may be missing an edit button, it is always good practice to review your post for possible misunderstanding before pressing SUBMIT.

Thank you kindly.

[Incongruous]

You ought to ask yourself if you have any right to be, in light of the way the Maori were treated. Does New Zealand have a right to exist?

I'm not saying that you don't. I'm saying it's virtually impossible to find any corner of the globe where somebody displaced somebody. All you can do is agree to get along now. This is why most people, Israel included, support a 2-state solution.

Saying "Israel stole the land from the Palestinians, all should die" is no different than saying "New Zealand stole the land from the Maori, all must die" or "America stole the land from the Sioux, all must die". Compromise, my friend, compromise.

Fine then Don, just try and shut down any argument there is for the sake of seeming smart and delivering a "slam dunk".
Yeah well guess what there's something called the Traety of Waitangi, I was once against but over time I have become very for it. We have never allowed a bunch of hateful zealots into a purely Maori area and let them slaughter everyone. So how about you stop trying to "slam dunk" me out of the argument.

To Goofball, you want to argue something, again stop trying to shut me down by insulting my intellegence.

Also I believe people have stated (to my knowledge rightly) that it was the Zionists (note not the jews, as I believe many had been living in Palestine for a long time peacfully) whom we can attribute the current violence and terrorism to. They were the ones who threw down the gaunlet, I suppose. I find it hard to respect a nation ( a democracy at that) which uses third world terror tactics, imagine Ireland today if Britain was bombing the crap out of it.
Israel as the nation, has the bigger role to play, it's not playing it. It's acting like a rogue state.

[Redleg]

Fine then Don, just try and shut down any argument there is for the sake of seeming smart and delivering a "slam dunk".
Yeah well guess what there's something called the Traety of Waitangi, I was once against but over time I have become very for it. We have never allowed a bunch of hateful zealots into a purely Maori area and let them slaughter everyone. So how about you stop trying to "slam dunk" me out of the argument.

Never is an absolute statement, one that when one considers the Island was settle by Europeans most likely against the Maori's wishes. Europeans when settling land inhabitated by others often put to rest any use of an absolute term.

Also I believe people have stated (to my knowledge rightly) that it was the Zionists (note not the jews, as I believe many had been living in Palestine for a long time peacfully) whom we can attribute the current violence and terrorism to. They were the ones who threw down the gaunlet, I suppose. I find it hard to respect a nation ( a democracy at that) which uses third world terror tactics, imagine Ireland today if Britain was bombing the crap out of it.
Israel as the nation, has the bigger role to play, it's not playing it. It's acting like a rogue state.

Oh I believe that both sides were using forms of terrorism before the King David Hotel was blown up by the Zionists. Both sides have warped themselves into the state that they are in now,

[Incongruous]

Never is an absolute statement, one that when one considers the Island was settle by Europeans most likely against the Maori's wishes. Europeans when settling land inhabitated by others often put to rest any use of an absolute term.



Oh I believe that both sides were using forms of terrorism before the King David Hotel was blown up by the Zionists. Both sides have warped themselves into the state that they are in now,

Ok here we go, if Israel had sorted itself out, like NZ has done I could accept it as a modern nation. It has gone to the very other end. Israel needs to step up.

You don't think that violence in Palestine may have increased to Zionist incursion? I had always thought the Muslims lived rather peacefully with Jews before.

[Redleg]

Ok here we go, if Israel had sorted itself out, like NZ has done I could accept it as a modern nation. It has gone to the very other end. Israel needs to step up.

Agreed - just as the Palenstine Authority needs to step up and demonstrate that its a viable government for the land that it controls. Then we have the Palestinian actions in Lebanon. The stepping up to the plate for peaceful resolution must be done by both sides.

You don't think that violence in Palestine may have increased to Zionist incursion? I had always thought the Muslims lived rather peacefully with Jews before.

I didn't say the Zionist incursion didn't increace the violence - I stated that both sides were using violence against each other. There was a lot of tit for tat exchanges prior to the King David Hotel Bombing.

[Incongruous]

Agreed - just as the Palenstine Authority needs to step up and demonstrate that its a viable government for the land that it controls. Then we have the Palestinian actions in Lebanon. The stepping up to the plate for peaceful resolution must be done by both sides.



I didn't say the Zionist incursion didn't increace the violence - I stated that both sides were using violence against each other. There was a lot of tit for tat exchanges prior to the King David Hotel Bombing.

Well I believe Israel is by far the more powerfull partner and thus has the higher responsability.

I accept there has been tit for tat, but Israel with the financial and moral backing of the west is able to strike out on a far larger scale than ever Palestinian millitants will.

[Redleg]

Well I believe Israel is by far the more powerfull partner and thus has the higher responsability.

So when Israel begins to act in the higher responsible manner and the attacks continue what do you expect Israel to do? (By the way this is a scenerio that has happened several times.)

I accept there has been tit for tat, but Israel with the financial and moral backing of the west is able to strike out on a far larger scale than ever Palestinian millitants will.

True but one must look at the complete picture. Is a nation suppose to let a terror organization continue to strike your citizens without conducting action against those terrorists?

You will find me in agreement that Israel needs to be a more careful and selective in its response to the attacks - but to ignore the strikes against its citizens is something I would not expect Israel to do.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Well I believe Israel is by far the more powerfull partner and thus has the higher responsability.

Whilst this view has some weight, the truth of the matter is that the Palestinian people could have by far the most moral power.

If they forced their leadership to stop the internal and external violence, and had they adopted non-violent resistance against the Israeli occupiers, they would be in a far more powerful position.

Israel for all her faults, is a democracy, with a healthy diversity of opinion. Even left-wing Israelis however, are not about to sacrifice their country to the kind of madness we currently see the Palestinians indulging in.

Palestinians can never win their aims militarily. All they can do is die endlessly and pointlessly for the gratification of madmen and crooks. If they laid down their arms and used the same courage to stand up peacefully against aggression and occupation, whilst some may still die, eventually that non-violent courage would gain them many friends, shame their enemies, and deliver their homeland.

And it would be a place of peace, alongside and in partnership with a peaceful Israel.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Whilst this view has some weight, the truth of the matter is that the Palestinian people could have by far the most moral power.

If they forced their leadership to stop the internal and external violence, and had they adopted non-violent resistance against the Israeli occupiers, they would be in a far more powerful position.

Israel for all her faults, is a democracy, with a healthy diversity of opinion. Even left-wing Israelis however, are not about to sacrifice their country to the kind of madness we currently see the Palestinians indulging in.

Palestinians can never win their aims militarily. All they can do is die endlessly and pointlessly for the gratification of madmen and crooks. If they laid down their arms and used the same courage to stand up peacefully against aggression and occupation, whilst some may still die, eventually that non-violent courage would gain them many friends, shame their enemies, and deliver their homeland.

And it would be a place of peace, alongside and in partnership with a peaceful Israel.

Ive tried to say the same thing countless times but never put it as well as you just did.

[Slyspy]

And it would be a place of peace, alongside and in partnership with a peaceful Israel.

I doubt that. Things never seem to turn out this way.

[ajaxfetish]

Ok here we go, if Israel had sorted itself out, like NZ has done I could accept it as a modern nation. It has gone to the very other end. Israel needs to step up.

I may be wrong here, but I don't think the Maori's fail to recognize New Zealand's right to exist, or operate from a platform that all non-natives must die or leave. Nor do the Maori's have numerous neighboring countries that share that sentiment and vastly outnumber the European settlers. My point is, it was a little easier for NZ to sort itself out due to the context. Israel's got a tougher time of it. Zionism hasn't helped make it any easier, to be sure, but keep in mind that they're fighting an uphill battle for survival. While in particular instances of IDF vs. Palestinians, the Israelis certainly have the upper hand, in the big picture their place isn't nearly so secure or superior.

Ajax

[Incongruous]

I may be wrong here, but I don't think the Maori's fail to recognize New Zealand's right to exist, or operate from a platform that all non-natives must die or leave. Nor do the Maori's have numerous neighboring countries that share that sentiment and vastly outnumber the European settlers. My point is, it was a little easier for NZ to sort itself out due to the context. Israel's got a tougher time of it. Zionism hasn't helped make it any easier, to be sure, but keep in mind that they're fighting an uphill battle for survival. While in particular instances of IDF vs. Palestinians, the Israelis certainly have the upper hand, in the big picture their place isn't nearly so secure or superior.

Ajax

Ok I going to make a guess here.
You do not believe that the actuall creation of Israel was a bad thing and should never of happened. I do. I'm just trying to understand you're position.

[Kralizec]

TO express how many Israeli Arabs commited war crimes as a members of Israeli army;

If I remember it well Israeli Arabs didn't serve into army. They were allowed to join as volunteers since about 2000 year.

Correction, Druzhe Arabs do serve in the Israeli army (and they were a pretty significant asset in the last Israel-Libanon war I recall), other muslim denominations don't AFAIK.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

You do not believe that the actuall creation of Israel was a bad thing and should never of happened.

You do not believe that the actual creation of Iraq, Jordan and Palestine was a bad thing and should never of happened?

[Incongruous]

You do not believe that the actual creation of Iraq, Jordan and Palestine was a bad thing and should never of happened?

?
You trying to be smart, Gawain? Where are you going with this?

[Tribesman]

You trying to be smart, Gawain? Where are you going with this?

Thats an easy one , in each case some locals got severely screwed over

[Gawain of Orkeny]

None were nations before the British and French set up all these countries around the ME. How is it only Jews cant have a state there. The arabs have over 90% of Palestine and still they bitch. You would think they would be glad the jews left their countries and all moved to little old Israel. I wonder how many of you realize just how tiny this nation is.

The blame here belongs squarely on you Europeans who set this whole thing in motion, They did a pretty poor job on Iraq as well dont you think?

[ShadeHonestus]

The blame here belongs squarely on you Europeans who set this whole thing in motion, They did a pretty poor job on Iraq as well dont you think?

You wouldn't be referring to the complete puppet of the British and his government falling to that one party which had direct ties to the Nazi's would you? Some of their members actually serving under the Nazi's in the Balkans I believe. Saddam's uncle being one of the core members and all that jazz...

[Incongruous]

None were nations before the British and French set up all these countries around the ME. How is it only Jews cant have a state there. The arabs have over 90% of Palestine and still they bitch. You would think they would be glad the jews left their countries and all moved to little old Israel. I wonder how many of you realize just how tiny this nation is.

The blame here belongs squarely on you Europeans who set this whole thing in motion, They did a pretty poor job on Iraq as well dont you think?

I don't think that it was the Jews cannot have a state, so much as how dare zionists steal one from seemingly peaceful people. Then have the audacity to say they have the moral high ground. Not only that, but the Palestinians are constantly reviled by the West as being terrorists. The Israeli's are terrorists but on a massive scale. For God's sake they were lead by a war criminal.
You going to tell me to get a reality check again Gawain?
Save it.