Mercenary modifications

[mlp071]

Great, thanks for that tip guys . I am not use to cheats , so i never knew there is one like that.It's good for testing use.

I never played steppe factions, but i am tempted to start Sauromatae after i examined their armies.

Couple of things that bothered me on test were that :

- Makedons really need help, they need to have chance to stick around longer then 265 BC in Greece. I tried with extra mercs on start but didn't help them.With Makedons around , Romani have chance to get Taras quickly.But usually they are gone by 256 BC and confined to Mytilene at best 9 out 10 times.I am not against them losing , just they should have some chance for diferent outcome, for sake of diferent game results.
Plus they were historicaly tougher then that . Greek cities never beat them since Philip II.When i think of it Greek cities never beat anyone since Persians, other then each others.

- KH is in better position. I played Epyrote and Makedon campaigns and even when they were confined to Rhodos, KH was one of the richest factions.That what gets Maks down, plus despite all economical goodies they got ,KH league was in big debt as result of centuries long constant inter-warfare.They were complete broke by Second Punic war, that creditors demanded their money back and couldn't retrieve it.

- Same thing with Seleukids, with big number of mercs gone , they are fully "nuked" also. Adding mercs wouldn't help , since they will again fully buy armies .Thats something to think about it.

- and it would be truly helpfull to get some , if possible Illyrian and Lugowian mercs unit types, as well some more eastern ones(Indian Longbowmen maybe ). I just found it that recruting Celts in Illyrian AoR is not to realistic, IMHO.And east is huge space that is covered with very few mercenary unit types.

Anyways , my next step is adding some hellenistic mercs in Seleukid and Baktrian areas to represent colonies that were there att around Persian Royal road.But just in limited numbers.

[The Errant]

There is a reason KH, Epeiros and Macedon are treated so harshly in my script. The amount of settlements on the Greek and Italian peninsula is very high. And the distances between them are very short.
The result is that whoever owns those settlements get a killer economy going.
In my Epirote campaign I've got a treasury of well over 150 000 mnai and rising trough trade and mining in Thrace and Illyria.
Together with the vanilla EB money script those factions are absolutely rolling in cash. That is also th reason why Carthage, Ptolies and Rome are so prosperous. The combined maritime trade with some mining income added is a killer. And the short distances between their settlements aren't helping either.

Macedon was weak at the beginning of the game. Very weak. But it should have fallen to Epirotes and not Koinon. The Epirote preoccupation with Taras is the major problem with them not expanding like crazy in Greece.
With the money script activated I saw a longer more serious fight between Macedon and Koinon. It still leads to Macedonian defeat but it takes time.
Since the Greek cities are all marked as being founded by the Koinon, their loyalty is to the them. Not Macedon. So they don't get back cities trough rebellion.

I agree that Seleukids need some help. The Baktrians are steamrolling them far too easily. God I hate that Blue Monster. All the former Roman factions from vanilla RTW are expansionistic bastards. But Baktria is the worst one. Whenever there is no Grey Death atleast.

Love the Getic and Parthian expansion btw. The Pontics too are looking promising. Not so happy with the Sweboz.

New Illyrian and Thracian units will be added in the next build. Until then you will have to make do with the Celtic ones. Sorry. You might want to add some low tier Iberian ones. Just for flavor.

[mlp071]

Unfortunately, Pahlava were about to be done, since Baktria was besigeing several of their cities with superior force Yeah Baktria needs some reworks.I will add some mercs around them for start , will see what happens.

I am very happy with regional faction armies. They are really good mix of local levies and main faction units.

Sweboz were fine till 3-4 baltic/lugowian regions didn't rebel to them from Sauromatae, then they got huge.

In my tests , as long Epyrotes were fighting longer undecisive battle with Maks and they didn't took Dalminion or Rhegion right away,they had chance of losing Taras fast.Maks being weak is not related to your money script only, but EB in general.Korinthos, with no general,has no chance against 2 KH generals with 3-4 stars, and after that it's game over for Maks.Epyrotes are pretty much 50/50 since i removed several mercs that spawn in their areas and Dalminion.

I also noticed that when last Eleutheroi generals die out around 220 , Eleutheroi get runned over in couple of turns.Maybe something can be worked around that , but not sure what.

Is there a way to change some sub-cultures to non faction ones, example Lugowian towns, so they rebel back to Eleutheroi, not to Sweboz?There some other places that are little bit controversial to, like Partala will always rebel to Pahlava.

And also i have concerns about general's stars. AI tends to do really idiotic stuff , because it calculates odds based on that more then army strenghts.

Something like this (Romani have 2 infantry units in town+ one outside):





love the ladders part, hehe

[The Errant]

Sorry but the Eleuteroi faction is Rebel. Basically what is in EB a bunch of independent nations is regarded by the game engine as settlements that have at some point in history, rebelled from their righful owners or founders.

That's why descr_strat has the founding faction listed.
The founding faction also ties to what sort of upgrades the Eleutheroi can build. Be that the barbarian, western greek, eastern greek or eastern type buildings.

Who a town rebels to is tied to the building base and the founding faction. I don't know the odds but they should be roughly 50/50 either back to Rebel or the founding faction. Unless anohter AI faction has upgraded the settlement with a different cultures tech tree. Then the chances are higher it will go to that faction if conquered or turn Rebel.

About the Eleutheroi. There is only one way to keep them from emptying garrisons once their commanders die out between 240 - 220 B.C. That is by placing new static commanders in those towns. Preferably some turns earlier before the old ones die out. Unfortunately it's quite common that the settlements are filled up of native troops, so I don't know if the new governor can oust one of those garrison units to make space for himself.

Using the script to place such a static general is possible. I've seen it myself.

The command stars are problematic. Is has to do with EB mechanics. There are very few command stars for the Human player's generals. Those are compensated by the traits that effect the whole army.
In order to make it harder for you to overcome your enemy, and keep the enemy troops from insta-routing the AI generals command stars are artificially increased.
It makes for better battles in general but screws up the odds in AI battles cause the game calculates the odds based on unit compositions and the command stars.
That's why a "Crushing Defeat" from autocalc can turn into a "Heroic Victory" if you decide to fight the battle out yourself on the tactical map.

Btw. That pic is typical AI stupidity. Besieging a town with just a general and building siege engines. The least they could do is just place the siege and hope to starve the defenders out. But you can't expect the AI to be reasonable. Especially on VH campaign difficulty.

[mlp071]

Maybe replace them with character_die, and then create character (or whatever are script commands), like every 30 years or so ?

That way old general will die, and new one can have space in town ...

Don't know is that possible or not...maybe will play with it when i am done with mercs script.

Either way i am looking forward to new public release .Still 3 of you guys did great job with money scripts, they are all great to work with.

I'll go back and run one more test to see where else i can improve this script i am working on.I would have add(create) more region based mercs , but i an totally unskilled with skins creations.So will work with what i have, hehe

[Darth Stalin]

Hey, mlp071!

Looks as a great job, indeed!
However, I have a problem with downloading your file from the link in post #1.
I get only such text:

You have request "DESCR_MERCENARIES.txt" file (45.56 Kb)
Generation of the download link takes some time. Please wait up to 35 seconds
For correct generation of the download link, you need to disable any 'AD Blocking' software or browser's plugins! ...

Here is your personal link to download: http://dl.axifile.com/dd381a5ce646c0...ERCENARIES.txt
Attention:
You can download up to 3 files simultaneously (each file in 1 stream)
Or one file up to 3 streams.
Do not share this link with anyone. It's valid only from your IP.

Hmmm... strange thing... what is bolded and in red did not display on my screen, but only when I copied the whole part of the text and pasted it to this post... strange...

And when I DL-ed what is under that link, I've seen the following text:

Temporary link for downloading file was generated not propertly.

Axifile is an absolutely free service, financed by online advertising,
so we do not have an interests to support applications hides our advertising.

For generating the real link use ONLY web browser.
1. Goto address http://www.axifile.com?[PUBLIC FILE ID (7 digits number)]
2. Wait up to 20 seconds untill the real link will be generated.
3. Now you can download file by any appliction (Your browser, Download Master, FlashGet, GetRigth)
Note we are supports multi threads downloads.

Requrments for web browser
Javascript enabled
Cockies enabled
Macromedia flash player 6.0 +
Axifile team.

[mlp071]

I just downloaded without any problems. Do you have all those requirements listed:


Javascript enabled
Cockies enabled
Macromedia flash player 6.0 +


Plus on Axifile you need to wait 20-35 sec till download link shows up.

I posted rapidshare link also :)

you can try that one :)

Thanks

[JMRC]

Hi!

After reading your comments I went back to starting point and began testing with EB standard EDU file, redmeth's money script and mlp071's latest merc file.

I noticed that around 250 BC, most factions were bankrupted and unable to buy more troops. This happened because they had high upkeep costs (Macedonia had around 15K Mnai of army upkeep while Saka had around 10K) and the helping money was not enough to balance the accounts.

If the AI could replenish the troops, this could be easier. But as it is, they have lots of stacks which in fact are half-empty and don't pose a real threat.

So, I guess we'll have to pump more money into the system as time passes by, in order to cover the upkeep costs and allow them to recruit full units to renew their stacks.

IMO, we'll have to "set" a general value of army upkeep and construction effort costs, for each faction, along the time.

For example, we could say that the Romans should have:
- around 50K Mnai at anytime up to year 240BC
- around 100K Mnai at anytime between 239BC and 120BC
- around 200K Mnai at anytime between 119BC and the end of the game

Of course, it will require some programming in EBBS to give or remove money from the Treasury, to keep it at the desired level.

With this logic, we could allow Baktria and Parthia's armies to grow faster than Seleukeia's, when this last empire started to crumble. And allow the Greeks to be a bit more powerful than Macedon as time passes by, while cutting Epeiros' treasury towards the end of its "lifetime" and allow it to be conquered by its neighbours. To be truthful to History, the Romans should have far more money than its neighbours, because by the end of the game they should have about 1/3 of the EB territory.

I haven't had the time to study this logic and obtain the values that will allow for (tentative) historical results, but I'm really convinced that with a careful balance of the factions' Treasuries, we can reach results that approach History.

[mlp071]

Hi!

After reading your comments I went back to starting point and began testing with EB standard EDU file, redmeth's money script and mlp071's latest merc file.

I noticed that around 250 BC, most factions were bankrupted and unable to buy more troops. This happened because they had high upkeep costs (Macedonia had around 15K Mnai of army upkeep while Saka had around 10K) and the helping money was not enough to balance the accounts.

If the AI could replenish the troops, this could be easier. But as it is, they have lots of stacks which in fact are half-empty and don't pose a real threat.

So, I guess we'll have to pump more money into the system as time passes by, in order to cover the upkeep costs and allow them to recruit full units to renew their stacks.

IMO, we'll have to "set" a general value of army upkeep and construction effort costs, for each faction, along the time.

For example, we could say that the Romans should have:
- around 50K Mnai at anytime up to year 240BC
- around 100K Mnai at anytime between 239BC and 120BC
- around 200K Mnai at anytime between 119BC and the end of the game

Of course, it will require some programming in EBBS to give or remove money from the Treasury, to keep it at the desired level.

With this logic, we could allow Baktria and Parthia's armies to grow faster than Seleukeia's, when this last empire started to crumble. And allow the Greeks to be a bit more powerful than Macedon as time passes by, while cutting Epeiros' treasury towards the end of its "lifetime" and allow it to be conquered by its neighbours. To be truthful to History, the Romans should have far more money than its neighbours, because by the end of the game they should have about 1/3 of the EB territory.

I haven't had the time to study this logic and obtain the values that will allow for (tentative) historical results, but I'm really convinced that with a careful balance of the factions' Treasuries, we can reach results that approach History.

This is more of the money script issue. Can you post it there so that developers can see it ?

Thanks

[mlp071]

And allow the Greeks to be a bit more powerful than Macedon as time passes by, while cutting Epeiros' treasury towards the end of its "lifetime" and allow it to be conquered by its neighbours.

I am getting confused about KH's strenght in the game . Historicaly they lost 267-261 war against Makedons handsomely and Athenai lost free city status as the result.

Maks only got down by Romani some 100+ years later.

Yet, in game Maks are the one getting slaughtered regulary.That is if going to try historical approach.

[mlp071]

Well, i did tests with Redmeth's and Errant's scripts before,but didn't test with Sheep's yet.

So here we go:


VH/M with Sheep's script:




- All factions are still in game

- Did quite a bit : Romani ,Makedonia, Baktria,Qarthadastim

- Didn't try to do anything or almost anything : Sweboz, Getai, Sauromatae, Pontos

- Maks were actually more lucky then good. Epeiros took Pella in 267 , but then got fully into Sicily, completely ignoring Makedonians.Meanwhile Maks needed 40 years and numerous attempts to take Athenai.They only succeded when KH decided to get involved in Asia Minor.Their further expansion was just following teritories that epeiros was holding, and Getai/Sweboz didn't even try to conquer. If everyone was active , Maks would be history by 260 at latest.

- And yes, despite all that Romani power, Epeiros still has Tarentum.Romani simply just ignored it, yet again.

I am very pleased with army composition, they were close to last test , little more on levies side 60/40 %.
And numbers of factions military were close, if not similar to previous test.Several armies had siege engines , and one Baktrian had actually 2 .





There is not much more i can do with this script until new EB update, other then some small rebalancing if it's needed. After several (10+ ) tests , i noticed that army sizes stay same no matter how many mercenaries is available in pool.

Only difference is makeup of the armies, and i am satisfied with present ratio.Anything more on either side would cause major diference between big and small factions.

You will find updated Desc_Mercenaries in my first post for download.

thanks

[MiniMe]

2 mlp071
Great job, man, manythanx

Stupid question: is there any way to implement your mercenary file to modify existing game, that began with classic EB mercenary file?
(deleting map.rwm doesn't help)

[mlp071]

2 mlp071
Great job, man, manythanx

Stupid question: is there any way to implement your mercenary file to modify existing game, that began with classic EB mercenary file?
(deleting map.rwm doesn't help)

It doesn't look like, since all that data is stored in savegame file.At best i think you will get previous units already in queue to be recruited and new ones.Old ones then will not show up again, after they got recruited.

But, again, i didn't test that. Will try it tommorow.

[Dan_Grr]

Making several tests is essential to check the balance on the scripts and you've done it well. I don't play EB for several weeks because of boreness and A.I sadness, but if I ever come back Im going to try this, thanks.