Mercenary modifications

[LorDBulA]

- there is total of 64 different mercenary units that is available in EB att , and all will be available to recruit(unless there are bugged). I am trying to spice up a little bit,but 64 on such a huge map is not quite a bit.

Be careful there. Many units that have mercenary attribute in EDU are not mercenaries. They have this entry because It lets us use another texture for this unit using "mercenary trick" ( dont know exactly how it works though ).

[mlp071]

Be careful there. Many units that have mercenary attribute in EDU are not mercenaries. They have this entry because It lets us use another texture for this unit using "mercenary trick" ( dont know exactly how it works though ).

Yeah those i didn't count, just ones that i was able to spawn in mercenary pool.But the ones that are usable will help to break steady diet of hoplitai, thureopoi, phalangitai and peltastai

At least i hope so...

Sounds good just be sure certain mercs show up only after their reforms.(I.e no Goidilic units until Celtic reforms ect.)

If you played Casse ( god knows i am close to starting to run their campaings in my sleep, after like all these test runs ), you will notice that some are buildable, well 1 of them pre-reforms.

[JMRC]

I went for a slightly different approach:

1. Reduced the recruitment costs by 50% (but kept the same upkeep costs). This led to higher numbers of troops and consequently, the AI diversifies the troops created in the barracks. They create all kinds of troops (cavalry, missile,

2. Since costs are lower, I adjusted Redmeth's money script to give much less money to the AI, with extra help according to the number of cities. I also lowered the cap to 10.000 instead of 100.000

3. I give very little money assistance to the "slave" faction. This happens because the AI has a nasty tendency to waste small armies against well-protected cities.

4. I used MLP071's previous mercenary file, but replaced all values according to the following rule:
1) Increased 4 experience levels for every unit
2) Costs for units with experience level 4 are Base Value x 2,19
3) Costs for units with experience level 5 are Base Value x 2,67
4) Costs for units with experience level 6 are Base Value x 3,24

Results:

I haven't got enough time to test much of this modifications, but now there are more units on the campaign map and the AI moves agressively against the rebel cities in order to conquer them.

There is a good balance between the greek factions and also between the celtic factions.

Mercenaries are seldom recruited (the price now is too high) but it does happen to appear a recruiting faction now and then. Mostly, factions rely on their own units. After a few years, the Germans started producing their elite Wolves.

There is a faster pace to the game, since the factions have enough money to make units and buildings. I was specially worried with the fact that the Seleucids expanded quickly and powerfully. With much less money, they now remain somewhat stable, giving the oportunity to the weaker neighbours to move against the rebel cities around and to attack even the Seleucid cities.

I'll keep going with the campaign and see what comes out of it.

[mAIOR]

It seems a better idea to double the price for mercs for the AI factions instead of halving the factional ones.
I'll try that latter today...
If all goes as expected, it should behave close to JRMC alterations regarding army compositions...



Cheers...

[Redmeth]

I went for a slightly different approach:

1. Reduced the recruitment costs by 50% (but kept the same upkeep costs). This led to higher numbers of troops and consequently, the AI diversifies the troops created in the barracks. They create all kinds of troops (cavalry, missile,

2. Since costs are lower, I adjusted Redmeth's money script to give much less money to the AI, with extra help according to the number of cities. I also lowered the cap to 10.000 instead of 100.000

3. I give very little money assistance to the "slave" faction. This happens because the AI has a nasty tendency to waste small armies against well-protected cities.

4. I used MLP071's previous mercenary file, but replaced all values according to the following rule:
1) Increased 4 experience levels for every unit
2) Costs for units with experience level 4 are Base Value x 2,19
3) Costs for units with experience level 5 are Base Value x 2,67
4) Costs for units with experience level 6 are Base Value x 3,24
.

1. It's dangerous to mess with these as it can screw up game balance and halved is way too cheap IMO, we're trying to prevent stack parades right?

2. The cap is way too low some factions were rich and while the lower cap may work for the big ones (maybe) it clearly can stop the little guys. Just exterminating a city would take a small faction over the cap

3. The slave faction should be strong and a challenge, AI factions shouldn't blitz and expand at completely ahistorical rates, wasting small armies and even large ones is ok in my book

4.This I like, veterans should be available but really few and the high cost should simulate things like hiring a tribe's best men or a chieftain's bodyguard. Something along these lines.

Sorry to be a downer, but that's how I see things

[Watchman]

4.This I like veterans should be available but really few and the high cost should simulate things like hiring a tribe's best men or a chieftain's bodyguard. Something along these lines

Maybe this could be represented by having a rarely appearing and markedly more expensive higher-exp version on top of the standard merc unit entries ? Not everyone who heeded the drums and down-payment cash of the mercenary recruiter was a hardened veteran after all; but on the other hand amalgamations of crack "old hands" from disbanded formations and scattered armies, or simply experienced formations without a paymaster, would logically also be available every now and then.

[JMRC]

1. It's dangerous to mess with these as it can screw up game balance and halved is way too cheap IMO, we're trying to prevent stack parades right?

2. The cap is way too low some factions were rich and while the lower cap may work for the big ones (maybe) it clearly can stop the little guys. Just exterminating a cities would take a small faction over the cap

3. The slave faction should be strong and a challenge, AI factions shouldn't blitz and expand at completely ahistorical rates, wasting small armies and even large ones is ok in my book

4.This I like veterans should be available but really few and the high cost should simulate things like hiring a tribe's best men or a chieftain's bodyguard. Something along these lines

Sorry to be a downer, but that's how I see things

No prob. I'm just experimenting anyway.

However, I do realize that I'm after a little more of a challenge at the expense of some historical accuracy. In my last campaigns, I destroyed Epeiros and the Gauls in a few years (though the Gauls should remain powerful until Julius Caesar crush them, more than 200 years later, so there goes the historical accuracy...)

So, for me to face stack after stack of enemy troops is not bad, as long as I can recover my losses and keep making punitive raids into their territory to cripple their economy and military capacity. That's why I halved the recruitment cost, though I retained the upkeep cost: the AI keeps recruiting and I keep recovering.

I agree that the slave faction should be strong, but most of the time the AI is not clever enough to mass a force against a powerful city and instead it wastes its troops, keeping itself too weak to face my units later. More importantly, the AI doesn't replenish its forces. So, many times I'm facing a full stack of half-completed units. Also, the rebels in the cities tend to be much static, while if the cities belong to some faction, they move around. The fact that the AI doesn't know how to face a siege (few units in the walls and lots moving below the towers, waiting for the slaughter) leads to many boring siege battles.

As for the merc vets, the logic behind the upgrade to higher levels of experience is this: no employer would give 2x ou 3x the value of his house troops for an inexperienced band of mercenaries. Now, if they have experience 4, 5 or 6, it will compensate. In fact, they should not have a higher recruitment cost, but a much higher upkeep cost. However, this would lead to the problem that we are trying to avoid: too many mercenaries and few house troops around the campaign map. Since mercs now are very scarce (with MLP071's changes, at least they are worth the money).

As for the cap, I haven't had time to understand the implications, but I noticed that many times the AI just keeps the money in the "bank", waiting for an enemy to exterminate one of their cities and reap a fat reward. So, its better to let them have just enough to produce lots of troops.

For instance, in one of my experiences, Palmyra rebelled against the Seleucids and became a Saba territory for a long time, until the Seleucids could gather a large enough army to take it back. Nearer to the Baktrian border, another Seleucid province rebelled (remaining "slave") and again, the Seleucids took a lot of time until taking it back. And it happened because they were nearly bankrupt... if the cap was 100.000, they could build an army much faster.

[Redmeth]

As for the cap, I haven't had time to understand the implications, but I noticed that many times the AI just keeps the money in the "bank", waiting for an enemy to exterminate one of their cities and reap a fat reward. So, its better to let them have just enough to produce lots of troops..

There is no connection between the funds a faction has and the money you or any other factions gets from exterminating a city. The income received from exterminating is solely based, as far as I can tell, on city and thus number of people killed, the bigger and more populated the city is the more money you get. The money is not deducted from the faction the exterminated city belonged to.

[mlp071]

Concerns about mercenaries with very high lvl of exp is that AI will calculate battle outcome unrealistically, as it in case of general's stars.

I tested little bit with 3+ xp before and was creating havoc.That is , it will with addition of all mercs that i am slowly bringing back into the game.Higher prices are my way of representing their higher upkeep cost, otherwise i have to play with some other files, which can backfire since AI is looking into buying cost , not upkeep cost.Plus higher upkeep could cripple AI in making more of faction elites.

But i will play with that again , as soon i get to the point of optimal amount of mercenaries available.

Presently i am trying to balance their amount and respawn rate, which will be different between the regions (some will spawn faster, some slower) probably.
But thats for the future , as is their xp.

I would call that "fine tunning".

Fixing this file is really slow process, due to limitations of the game and small #'s of mercenary troop types available.

Plus , i can tell you honestly , DESCR_MERCENARIES is one of the buggiest files that i have encountered in this game.Add to many mercs or not enough and none will spawn in that region, just an example


I did mention moving cap, up or down . But as it is now , i don't see anything that needs to be redone in money scripts, they are just fine IMHO.