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Thread: Maps and Provinces

  1. #61

    Default Re: Maps and Provinces

    Quote Originally Posted by Belisario
    Caravel, the new Anatolian peninsula looks great. I would only suggest a minor change: extend Konya as far as Sinope to avoid the border between Nicaea and Ankara.
    I am looking forward to seeing your next task, Greece.
    I can see exactly what you mean and it makes a lot of sense I'll get on to that.
    Quote Originally Posted by YourLordandConqueror
    Nice work Caravel. On Greece, I have read somewhere that Constantinople was difficult to invade from the north. As it stands, the Hungarians need only take Bulgaria to invade Constantinople, yet the self same Bulgarians had repeated troubles invading Constantinope from the north. My suggestion then is to extend Thrace (or Macedonia, depending on which your using) to cover Constantinople from invasions from Bulgaria. I don't know how accurate this would be, I'm looking for my sources as of right now.
    There is nothing we can do terrain wise, as with autocalced battles, hills and bridges have no effect AFAIK, so Constantinople would fall just as easily to an invasion from the west despite this. The extension of the current Greece province to cover it would not be accurate, and the creation of the new provinces within Greece will need to give parts of the north of the province to Constantinople province anyway, making it bigger. The only way I can see around this is to create a separate Constantinople province within Thrace as has been mentioned before, this would of course take up yet another much needed province, and would also involve the creation of a minimap which is just not feasible as everyone would have to download a file of nearly 37MB for the map graphics. The lukupmap is not such a problem as it is only a 700KB file. This is why I'd rather not have to get into cosmetic alterations of the map texture.
    Quote Originally Posted by Martok
    Caravel, I have a slightly OT question: With the removal of Arabia, what happened to the hero general (I can never remember his name) who normally starts there in the Early period? Did you move him to another province, or has he been deleted entirely? (I ask because he's the only decent general the Eggies have in the very beginning of the game.)
    The gentleman, Al-Afdal Shahinshah, and his trusty camels have been relocated to Damascus (which is really ID_ARABIA anyway).

  2. #62
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    Default Re: Maps and Provinces

    Quote Originally Posted by Caravel
    The gentleman, Al-Afdal Shahinshah, and his trusty camels have been relocated to Damascus (which is really ID_ARABIA anyway).


    Apropos of nothing: No word on my replacement power supply yet. I hope to hear from my friend over the weekend, but it still might be another week.
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  3. #63
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    Default Re: Maps and Provinces

    Not to rush you, but what are your plans for the Italian and Iberian Pennisulas? The British Isles? Central Europe and Scandinavia? Russian Steppes? I admire your work so far, just wondering though what might happen to those regions.

  4. #64

    Default Re: Maps and Provinces

    Quote Originally Posted by YourLordandConqueror
    Not to rush you, but what are your plans for the Italian and Iberian Pennisulas? The British Isles? Central Europe and Scandinavia? Russian Steppes? I admire your work so far, just wondering though what might happen to those regions.
    Italy I'm still looking into. The problem there is the sheer number of provinces that would need to be added. I'm thinking that Naples needs to be split at the least.

    Iberia Belisario was working on last I heard, though I'm not sure if he's still on it? If needs be he can send me a rough draft (a jpg of only the region showing roughly where the borders would be) and I can do the actual work drawing the borders and converting the image etc.

    The British Isles I wasn't planning to change. A landbridge between Ireland and Wales (Wales because otherwise the only route would be through Scotland which would be unrealistic) and that's about it. No matter how the provinces are altered there it would be still in the same format.

    Scandinavia I'm still not sure about. I may add the southern tip of Sweden to Denmark and that's it. I'm open to opinion on that one.

    The Steppe region I'm ok with so far. All of the provinces (Smolensk, Ryazan, Pereyaslavl etc) are all there. The only changes I would make would be around the south, mainly Kiev and Khazar perhaps.

    For the rest of central and Western Europe I'm also open to opinion.

  5. #65

    Smile Re: Maps and Provinces

    Caravel

    You invited ideas Here are a bundle - as you know, I think a good map adds more value than just about anything.

    There are so many possibilities that I suggest a couple of tests
    - was the proposed province significant historically over a long period
    - does it add to gameplay
    Supporting these tests
    - it's good if new provinces make it harder to use teleporting sea power all over the map and conquer by sea what were in reality large inland provinces
    - additional provinces in the border zones between culture areas/homelands are also good, so it is harder to leap from central France for example to the heart of the HRE or Castile-Leon
    Applying those rules of thumb
    - your proposal to split Naples is essential - S. Italy was a border zone, a hard nut to crack by seaborne invasion, and a major factor first in Norman struggles against Empire, Papacy and Byzantium, then in the conflict between Aragon and Anjou
    - Dalmatian coast to me is another goodie. This was an area of consistent struggle, changing hands between Italy, Byzantines, Turks and Hungary in our period. Adding it would make Croatia and Serbia conquerable only by land, which is right
    - I would split Aquitaine into Guyenne and Poitou - again all tests apply. Key area, hard to master
    - movement between Burgundy and Italy shouldn't be possible. I would put Savoy in between (also shielding Milan from France). The Count of Savoy was nicknamed "the gatekeeper of Italy"
    - Poland really needs splitting into Lesser Poland (Cracow) and Greater (Posen). It was very fragmented at this period, and the German drang nach osten should be more demanding than a pounce on a single province
    - I would add Samogitia between Livonia and Prussia. Again, there was prolonged conflict here, and adding removes absurdity of the forest expanses of Lithuania being conquered by a coastal landing
    - Flanders is way too big. This was the main conflict zone between HRE, France, Burgundy (plus some interest from England). I would split out Holland-Brabant as a separate province - maybe even 2.
    - doing something to S. Russia so you can't conquer the Steppe from the sea would make sense

    Those are my favourites (speaking only of Europe). Other possibles with a strong historical basis and some gameplay advantage (but less than above):
    - split Pomerania into E and West
    - split Lorraine into Upper and Lower
    - split Provence into County (coastal - linked to Aragonese) and Marquessate (inland)
    - split Denmark into mainland and islands
    - split Burgundy into Duchy (French) and County (Imperial - later became Franche Comte).

    Can add more detail about any of these if that helps.

    On the other side, I personally wonder about taking out Norway and Sweden. What could realistically happen there apart from Denmark v rebels? Anyway Sweden without Finland doesn't make a lot of sense.

    Look forward to your views

  6. #66

    Default Re: Maps and Provinces

    Some very good ideas there for provinces, I will definitely be looking into some of those.


  7. #67

    Default Re: Maps and Provinces

    Those are my favourites (speaking only of Europe). Other possibles with a strong historical basis and some gameplay advantage (but less than above):
    - split Pomerania into E and West
    - split Lorraine into Upper and Lower
    - split Provence into County (coastal - linked to Aragonese) and Marquessate (inland)
    - split Denmark into mainland and islands
    - split Burgundy into Duchy (French) and County (Imperial - later became Franche Comte).
    I think France and Iberia need some province splits, althrough in France I'd split both southern provinces (Provence and ...? I can't remember the name of the Western one, but I´d make it into Brittany and, uhm, The Gascogne, or whatever). Likewise, in Iberia I´d split Castile into a northern seaside and a southern inland province, and Cordoba in two (not sure exactly how)

    Also, I don´t remember if it was in this particular thread, but I made the experiment of messing with the starting rebel troops in "historically independent kingdoms during the Middle Ages". In Trebizond it worked just fine: If you jump to Constantinople, the rebel AI moves in the PKT that I gave it (which makes sense, in the context of "trying to reclaim the throne". althrough the new map alteration would make this part moot). I did not increase it's rebelliousness factor past 4, althrough I considered experimenting with that, as it would make Byzantium too hard, as what happened with my Iberian tweakings (see below)
    Increasing the garrison of Navarre, however, seems to have made Castile very unstable, and they got wiped by the almohads rather early. I´m not profficient about this last one, through, I need to test it playing in the local area. My hypothesis (not verified) is that the high rebellion rate I added to that particular province, and the big rebel army, makes Castile commit too many troops to keeping peace there, and that afterwards, the Almos move north, rout the king out of Castile, and thus split the kingdom into Navarre and Leon, with huge rebellions and not a whole lot of economy or base armies in either.
    Iä Cthulhu!

  8. #68
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    Default Re: Maps and Provinces

    Actually, thats why I play with a hampered rebel faction AI. The actual factions play much better, and war is signifgantly more common, as the rebel lands are quickly gobbled up.

    P.S. - In one of my games, the Spanish and Almos made peace for 60 odd years, and the Almo bull rushed the egyptians from behind as they were attacking hungary. It was the fastest collapse of an empire, and the most violent too (Not a single province remianed under egyptian control).

  9. #69

    Default Re: Maps and Provinces

    My Iberian map:



    I have added four new provinces (Catalonia, Murcia, Algarve, and Toledo) and made some border corrections (notably Valencia). The instability of the Muslim-Christian frontier makes the Iberian peninsula a hard work camp. I have tried to make a representative map of the period.

    If you want I can send you a high quality image of my Iberian map ready to use (copy and paste).

    I have been thinking about other regions but the province limit is frustrating.
    Last edited by Belisario; 06-13-2007 at 19:08.

  10. #70
    Camel Lord Senior Member Capture The Flag Champion Martok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maps and Provinces

    That's a sweet map, Belisario.

    Unfortunately, I'm forced to agree that the province limit is probably going to prevent adding all the new regions you've put in. Indeed, if the only new provinces we added were these plus those proposed in the Middle East section of the map, I'm pretty sure that alone would max out the province limit. And we still don't know for sure where else we're going to want to add new provinces, either. No matter what we do, some regions will almost certainly have to be sacrificed.
    "MTW is not a game, it's a way of life." -- drone

  11. #71

    Default Re: Maps and Provinces

    I am agree with you, Martok.

    I confess that I have thought about the possibility of new maps which represent specific scenarios: Reconquista (in this case we have the mod of the Celtibero Ramiro el Monje -MonkWarrior-), Crusades, Baltic Crusades, 100YW, Byzantium... There are multiple possibilities for these mods, but they need a lot of work (and time!).

  12. #72

    Smile Re: Maps and Provinces

    Nice map Belisario

    I've said it before and I say it again. Death to Norway, Sweden and Finland They could go from the game with a gain to realism and make it possible to add provinces which were genuinely contested in this period.

    A 12 province (out of 107) Iberia does look a shade generous though (especially if it means a 1 province Morocco, when Morocco was the driver for so much Spanish action). In gameplay (not historical) terms, if you had to reduce I would merge Granada and Murcia first of all.

  13. #73

    Default Re: Maps and Provinces

    A superb map, I am in full support of it. I don't think it is overdoing it either. It can only enhance gameplay, not impact it. If there are provinces available I have no problem with adding that region exactly as it is.

    Morocco I have as two provinces - Marrakech and Fes. There are also Algeria and Tunisia which are more than enough provinces for a region, that like Britain will be cut off by sea (due to the removal of Cyrenacia and the final (proposed) removal of the landbriges between Spain and Morocco). I plan to turn Marrakech into a rich province with good starting fortifications. The Moors losing spain will not mean the loss of the campaign.

    Last edited by caravel; 06-13-2007 at 23:49.

  14. #74
    Camel Lord Senior Member Capture The Flag Champion Martok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maps and Provinces

    Quote Originally Posted by western
    I've said it before and I say it again. Death to Norway, Sweden and Finland They could go from the game with a gain to realism and make it possible to add provinces which were genuinely contested in this period.
    At least one problem with removing those provinces is that it would hurt the Danes and Novgorod, as they would then have fewer provinces into which they could expand. (In fact, the Danes would basically have no avenue for nearby expansion unless they wanted to tackle the HRE immediately!) Also, removing those provinces would greatly reduce the strategic signficance of maintaining naval supremacy in the Skaagerak and Baltic Sea.
    "MTW is not a game, it's a way of life." -- drone

  15. #75

    Wink Re: Maps and Provinces

    Ah yes, the Novgorod conquest of Sweden, followed by a quick dash to Norway to forestall the English

    It all depends where you stand on the realism debate. If you have a realistic reconquista, seems a bit odd to have these funny goings on in Scandinavia - especially if provinces could be saved and better used. That's the kind of double whammy Caravel got from moving Cyrenaica.

    If that means that Danes have to expand into HRE rather than going north - well, that's exactly what Waldemar the Conqueror did. Tough gig, but what a challenge!

    I know total realism isn't achievable. But you can keep the possibilities at least bounded to some degree and I think that makes the game better, with some really tough factions. That's just my point of view though. Have to keep telling myself it's only a game

  16. #76

    Default Re: Maps and Provinces

    On the whole Sweden/Norway thing Denmark could be expanded to encompass part of southern Sweden, it's trade goods and farming could be improved and infrastructure strengthened if those provinces were removed. At present we have a weak Denmark that never expands in the early period. Invasion of Sweden almost always ends in disaster with the province rebelling creating a larger rebel garrison and the Danes in a worse position than before. Then the heirs start to mature and before you know it, they're in the red and out of the campaign. The Danes should always be a minor type of faction in the campaign, much like Aragon, but they should not be a completely crippled one. The real danger is in imbalancing them altogether which would unleash an unstoppable juggernaut Norse units through the HRE lands and beyond. This should not be a problem if they're still restricted to one province, don't have too much income and the unit prerequisites are properly set.

  17. #77

    Default Re: Maps and Provinces

    Quote Originally Posted by western
    In gameplay (not historical) terms, if you had to reduce I would merge Granada and Murcia first of all.
    More accurate would be merge Murcia and Valencia. Both provinces represent the Spanish region of Levante which the Muslims called Sharq al-Andalus. The Almohads came up against serious difficulties in this region, which remained unconquered until the death of its ruler Muhammad ibn Mardanish in 1172.

    Caravel, in what part of the map do you work now?

  18. #78

    Default Re: Maps and Provinces

    I'm currently not working on any part of the map. I understood you were working on the Iberian provinces and was awaiting the outcome before proceeding.

    The outcome is very good, so perhaps we can incorporate those provinces into the map?


  19. #79

    Default Re: Maps and Provinces

    Caravel, feel free to use it. This wednesday I will got some free time and I will send you an image of better quality of the map.

  20. #80
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    Default Re: Maps and Provinces

    Okay I want to jump on this map debate. On the removal of the Scandinavia provinces, I say the following: Kalmer Union. Also, the Danes really do need to expand else where, so I have an Idea. As a comprimise, unite Norway and Sweden, and Finland and Novgorod (the Rus can expand elswhere, their not severly hampered by such a loss). Give the Danes a large navy, which could prompt them to attempt naval invasions, which they happened to be historically good at. This will also bring some extra cash from the occasional line up of ships in the form of trade. Also, eliminate any and all male hiers for them. This gives them at least 16 years in which to expand their economy to be able to actually able to sustain thier royalty. If you want to couter the danish navy so they don't totaly own the seas, Give more ships to the Italians, Byzantines, and Egyptians.

  21. #81

    Default Re: Maps and Provinces

    The Danes need a boost bad. Right now they vegetate, until a low influence king triggers a huge rebellion that kills them :/

    Aragon is no better. I gave it a slightly developed Navarre. This is not only convenient to increase their survival rate: from 800 to 1134 (their final split, with a shorter split in the beggining of the 11th century) Navarre and Aragon were one kingdom.
    Iä Cthulhu!

  22. #82

    Default Re: Maps and Provinces

    A couple of things that have been on my mind:

    a) More provinces are needed in theaters (local areas) with more factions contesting for them

    Say for example in vanilla, Spanish provinces are too few and too rich; the game quickly deteriorates off balance with the Spanish faction domiating the area and becoming a full fledged punch towards the outside whithin 30 - 40 turns almost; past 100 turns, the Spanish faction is a great threat to say whoever is in France or Egypt.

    Having more provinces where there are more factions will require the eventual winner to struggle with the others and also allows for a more multidistributed wealth - that is thewinner needs to keep more provinces under his control (more garisson) to get a decent/substantial income. Province rebelliousness 1.0 or 2.0 as default for the map will help with that too.

    From that persepective, Anatolia needs way more provinces to support the Turkish faction and prevent it from being wiped out as early as it happens in vanilla. Caravel's go at Anatolia is quite good and tunes in with the no. of factions well.

    b) The various theaters need income balancing between them, as income of theaters controls game dynamics

    Typical such example is the aforemention Anatolia and Middle East between Byzantines, Turks and Egyptians. In vanilla, the middle east is axtraordinarily rich and so the Egyptians slowly wipe out the Turks and then goafter the Byzantines and most of the time wear them down and take Constantinople too.

    If you take about 150-200 florins out of each Crusading province from the middle east in vanilla you'll find that the dynamics in the area work better; as the Turks, Byzantines and Egyptians take more turns to war before a clear winner comes out and still not as strong as in the example outlined in the pargraph earlier.

    c) Add 1 or 2 factions in the steppes, as you had intended to stop sucking in of factions dueto the rebel provinces

    Hungary, Poland, the Russians and worst of all the Byzantnes dominating there attracted by the rebel provinces really kills campaign development from my perspective.

    The previously perceived Kievans are good as well as a steppe faction for early (Cumans? Pechenegs? Volga BUlgars?) in order to make a triangle as the area has enough provinces and income to support that.

    Noir
    Last edited by Noir; 09-06-2007 at 14:46.

  23. #83

    Default Re: Maps and Provinces

    Spanish provinces are too few and too rich; the game quickly deteriorates off balance with the Spanish faction domiating the area and becoming a full fledged punch towards the outside whithin 30 - 40 turns almost; past 100 turns, the Spanish faction is a great threat to say whoever is in France or Egypt.
    Indeed. The trouble arises from having only 8 provinces in Spain, with huge incomes, compared to the undefensible scattered regions in France or Germany. I managed a partial fix, but I think that two more provinces would be in order.
    Iä Cthulhu!

  24. #84

    Default Re: Maps and Provinces

    Ok, it's back to the map. The map will be the sole focus from now on until it's completion. The area I am now looking at in particular is southern Europe, the Balkan, Italian and Iberian Peninsulas respectively. This is following on from the last area which was Asia Minor.

    First off, in the general area I have looked at areas that need landbridging and others that need eliminating. It seems to me that Crete should be linked to the southern Peloponnese. Malta should be removed altogether and better used elsewhere - this will mean the merging of the Malta Channel into the Gulf of Gabes. For the Balkan Peninsula itself, it needs to be perhaps divided into a few provinces in the manner such as Noir suggested earlier in this thread. Malta will be available to use as one of these provinces, and the rest will need to be new provinces.

    Update: I've removed Malta (and added it as a small dot in southern Greece in order that I don't forget about it and it's RGB values) and the Malta Channel. This is the map so far:



    I would like to tidy up the point where the Gulf of Gabes connects to the Western Med but that would conflict with the standard Maptex.TGA file. This is also the reason why the Rhodes and Malta "blanks" for both the scale and zoomed in views have been retained (to ensure compatibility with the standard map).
    Last edited by caravel; 09-09-2007 at 00:30.

  25. #85

    Default Re: Maps and Provinces

    Looking good.

    further comments and suggestions: I made the above post about provinces needing to be proportional to factions in the area because, i have concluded, that overall there aren't enough provinces to represent decently all theaters.

    For example you could go ahead and split Acquitaine, Provence and Toulouse (Languedoc, Poitou, Provence, Dauphin, Auverge, Toulouse) OR concentrate on Burgundy or Lorraine or split Bohemia (Bohemia, Moravia).

    Similar arguments apply in Spain (Murcia, Al-garb, Portugal, Old Castille, New Castille and possibly more) in splitting Poland (Mazovia,Ruthenia,Upper Poland,Lower Poland) as well as Greece (Moreas, Epirus, Macedonia) and Hungary and the steppes (say for example Khazar in a coastal bit and an internal bit).

    Italy is also a place that needs plenty of provinces to represent the Alpine crossings and act as borders between the Italian North and France,Germany and the Balkans (Savoy, Turolia, Carniola) and perhaps an extra island like province with a single landbridge to represent Venice. Not to forget Naples (Naples, Apulia) as it is slightly ridiculous as one province.

    If you do all of the above, then in all probability you'll run out of provinces and have to make a compromise or two somewhere.

    All i am saying is that its better to make that compromise in places where the no. of factions justifies it.

    The other issue i want to raise is connectivity ie how far from theater to theater a stack can move; if you notice CA's strategy is to allow for a high connectivity, example you can jump from Georgia to Constantinople in two turns.

    My suggestion is that connectivity should be reduced between theaters, particularly where there are geographical features that justify this. Such features are: The Alps, the Carpathian Mountains, The Caucasian mountains (not much to do there), the Pyrenees, the Rhine, the Vistoula, the Danube.

    Places like Greece and Spain and Asia Minor (well treated) should reflect the fragmented geography due to terrain, while Northern France say should allow accessibility (as it does) due to its flat terrain.

    In some cases connectivity is really bad IMO, for example Franconia makes passage from France to Poland a 3 turn affair; as long as it takes from Lorraine to Brittany! Franconia needs to be disconnected from Silesia IMO, and be confined to the western part of Germany.

    Other such examples are Poland and Hungary that are really (especially the first one) really badly placed. They need appropriate partitioning IMO.

    The reason i champion lower connectivity is that it has a profound effect on gameplay as there are fewer roads to a certain place and so expansion is slower and after fierce fighting - there are less of these silly "retreats" the AI does since the player is able to concentrate all his forces in a place and gives away his most developed provinces simply because his territories can be accessed from many areas.

    The same goes for the sea zones that i suggested long ago. I did various experiments with vanilla and the MedmOd and it turns out that unless you split the sea into 4 zones, the AI tends to use his boats as spies almost losing income (upkeep and loss of trade) as well as not being able to protect his shores (more vulnerable to invasions) that in turn may come from very far away places (Russians in Spain and other such paradoxes - i am not saying they shouldn't be possible, i am saying that they should be very difficult as they were according to the logistics of the age).

    On top of this an extra strategic element is added to the game:

    In order to contest trade/sea control in a sea zone you need to conquer a port via land that faces it. This means that for the Byzantines to interfere in the English channel they need to conquer say Flanders. This is way more realistic rather than the colonial fleets that hang around in vanilla.

    The zones i propose are:
    Black Sea/East Med/Adriatic
    West Med/Straits of Gibratar/Golden Coast/Tyrhenian Sea
    Portugues Coast/Spanish Coast/Bay of Biscay/English Channel
    Skaggerak/Baltic

    The number of sea areas and ports may be adjusted to ensure decent trade whithin every zone respecting reality and historical accuracy for profit margins.

    The zones should be divided by deep sea zones and so giving the AI and the player to make contact with others but with more expensive to maintain deep sea vessels as would have been in actuality.

    Similarly it should be thought out from how many sea zones a province can be accessed; for example the ones on the North African coast can be accessed from way too many sea areas that make the position of the Almohads even more dire than it was. The fact that Crusades though can't go to the middle east will make the situation definitely better. I further suggest you make say Tunisia invadible from on sea area instead of two and the same with Algeria. This will account for the fact that these lands were going deep in North Africa and a landing there even if it was accompanied by a succesful battle didn't meant that their overloards were defeated (the other way is to add more provinces there internally but again there aren't enough - i was happy to see Morocco becoming 2 as it will help the Almohads immensely).

    Last but not least, i would suggest that most provinces be half worthwhile income wise (except from Ireland and Scotland that might turn the faction of the British Isles into a pain as the defensibility is very high due to the sea border). Provinces such as Arabia are real knock outs for gameplay as they hurt badly the AI.

    Noir

  26. #86

    Smile Re: Maps and Provinces

    I agree with Noir When I've fiddled with maps, I've done pretty much what he describes here - tried to make things more realistic by restricting movement (and in some cases - like Arabia or Sinai - restricting development too).

    On a more mundane level, re the part of the map which is Caravel's current focus, I said a while back why I thought Dalmatian coast would be a really good additional province. I'd add splitting Greece. Creating a Peloponnese province gives Turks, Byz, Italians/Venetians, Crusaders, even French something else to realistically battle over. Achaea was reckoned the model feudal court in the middle of the 13th century, contributed 400 knights to the overthrow of the Hohenstaufen in S. Italy, passed through multiple hands after 1204 but was always a separate entity (well actually 2, ie Duchy of Athens and Principality of Achaea, but one province could adequately represent this)

  27. #87

    Default Re: Maps and Provinces

    I've spent last night debugging the startpos file and found no problems with the provincial connectivity so far. Greece is now done, along with the near east and Anatolia. In northern and western Europe the only changes made so far are the removal of Finland and Switzerland. One more provoince will be added to Spain before the focus will shift to eastern Europe and the steppes. If there are enough provinces I may add a few more to western Europe, but my priority remains in those areas that have insufficient or badly placed provinces.

    If you have ideas for provinces that you want added or believe may be needed for gameplay reasons now is the time to express your thoughts here. All ideas will be considered.


  28. #88
    Camel Lord Senior Member Capture The Flag Champion Martok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maps and Provinces

    Good to see you're adding Algarve.

    What did you think about my idea of splitting Poland, by the way? Like I said before, my gut feeling is that the Polish could use another province, given that the AI generally seems to struggle when playing as them. Have you (or anyone else) noticed this as well, or is just me?


    EDIT: Have you check out this map? I know it's from the High period, but it lists a few cities that could made into new steppe provinces.
    Last edited by Martok; 02-21-2008 at 20:08.
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  29. #89

    Default Re: Maps and Provinces

    I agree with Martok, Poland could be split in two regions: Greater Poland (capital Gniezno or Poznan) and Lesser Poland (capital Krakow).
    Hungary could also split in two regions but I'm not sure how do it. There are many possibilities in the eastern part of the map, however the region limit is also present.

  30. #90

    Default Re: Maps and Provinces

    I agree with the splitting of Poland If someone can find a map showing this and also an idea as to how the existing province could be divided then I'll be interested. This is all I've found so far but it would involve a lot of moving of existing borders to get it right.

    http://www.euratlas.com/history_euro..._map_1200.html

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