Of and relating to "Torture" in a War on Terror

[ShadeHonestus]

I thought I recognized that number! How is your mum going after I rolled her in flour and surfed the waves in?

I thought above we had figured out the use for flour power and finding wet spots... sorry flower power... well use of that is what got me in the door.

Is this part of your retaliatory theory? Bravo it says much about how you say animals fear and humans think? That was what you said right...think?

I do not know whether you took the porn number to be of a personal insult to you as it was not meant to make others think that you partake in porn. It was to typify unqualified outrage...a line used much here especially among comedians.

I rarely get really personal here, sometimes I may push buttons to get reactions and uncover motives, but even to those I do I usually befriend at one time or another in separate arguments that we find like principle. I do sometimes belittle ones arguments but not their families. The arguments you put forth you are accontable for, the reciprocal you speak of comes to play here, post like a child, get told to grown up. Make a nutjob conspiracy theory, you may get called a nutjob thats just human nature and believe it or not that is with restraint.

I'm not sure I know or want to know what I uncovered in you. I will note for your benefit and no doubt your pleasure that the reason I've been able to post more recently these last few days is because I brought a member of my family into my house as opposed to her sitting in a Hospice. The off topic arena has been a release as being away from academia and my other work during this time I need exercise of the brain. I do this when she is sleeping or other family isn't here paying their respects prior to the impending departure.

No doubt tribesman will come up with some irrelevant U.N. resolution on mom jokes with his usually spewage in hopes that barking loud enough he'll find like ideologs to mate with, but I can take his insults, I can forgive him that.

Maybe its becuase we are approaching days instead of weeks, but I find your blind attacks on what you do not know or can even take into account as a possibility prior to your post as particularly troubling.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Hey folks, a spirited discussion! But....

Could you also please provide your answers to the questions posed? I was not simply trying to bait a discussion, but wanted to operationally define some of the terms etc. so that the discussion could be properly grounded.

While I've gathered impressions from you, only Tribesy has provided a direct answer.

Tribes, could you add a few specific examples to define permissable techniques and non-permissable, please?

[Tribesman]

Tribes, could you add a few specific examples to define permissable techniques and non-permissable, please?

Isn't it clearly specific in the treaty that most countries (including the US) agreed to as to what is and what is not permissable , its certainly very very clear that under no circumstances can it be justified .....though I had to repeat that bit in big red letters as some people are too screwed up worrying about the sky falling in to understand it .

[ajaxfetish]

Isn't it clearly specific in the treaty that most countries (including the US) agreed to as to what is and what is not permissable , its certainly very very clear that under no circumstances can it be justified .....though I had to repeat that bit in big red letters as some people are too screwed up worrying about the sky falling in to understand it .

I think he is asking your specific ideas about what actions would constitute 'causing severe mental or physical pain or suffering in order to obtain information or whatnot.' Kind of like DC's requests for clarification in the other torture thread. Withholding AC? Cable TV? Korans? A slap? Solitary confinement? What are reasonable treatments and where is the line to separate them from torture? You've certainly laid out good guidelines to follow, but what is your personal interpretation of those guidelines?

Ajax

edit: for me personally, I think Redleg's comments seem reasonable enough. I haven't given extensive personal thought yet to what the limits and definitions should be, and I'm not well versed in standard police, FBI, military, or CIA interrogation procedures so as to invoke or criticize them specifically.

[HoreTore]

The geneva conventions is a good thing to follow. Also, the UN Convention against Torture definition provides that torture is “any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions”.

[Papewaio]

Is this part of your retaliatory theory? Bravo it says much about how you say animals fear and humans think? That was what you said right...think?

I do not know whether you took the porn number to be of a personal insult to you as it was not meant to make others think that you partake in porn. It was to typify unqualified outrage...a line used much here especially among comedians.

I rarely get really personal here, sometimes I may push buttons to get reactions and uncover motives, but even to those I do I usually befriend at one time or another in separate arguments that we find like principle. I do sometimes belittle ones arguments but not their families. The arguments you put forth you are accontable for, the reciprocal you speak of comes to play here, post like a child, get told to grown up. Make a nutjob conspiracy theory, you may get called a nutjob thats just human nature and believe it or not that is with restraint.

I'm not sure I know or want to know what I uncovered in you. I will note for your benefit and no doubt your pleasure that the reason I've been able to post more recently these last few days is because I brought a member of my family into my house as opposed to her sitting in a Hospice. The off topic arena has been a release as being away from academia and my other work during this time I need exercise of the brain. I do this when she is sleeping or other family isn't here paying their respects prior to the impending departure.

No doubt tribesman will come up with some irrelevant U.N. resolution on mom jokes with his usually spewage in hopes that barking loud enough he'll find like ideologs to mate with, but I can take his insults, I can forgive him that.

Maybe its becuase we are approaching days instead of weeks, but I find your blind attacks on what you do not know or can even take into account as a possibility prior to your post as particularly troubling.

Don't hit below the belt with misquoting me and putting swear words in my mouth. As a Nutjob one of my favourite movies naturally is the Nutty Professor, although I admit to preferring the original movie to that of Eddies'... yesteryears movies were so much better... the old times are always better.

If you don't like someone responding in kind to a verbal insult, methinks that you shouldn't be the kind supporting torture as you definitely won't like having that responded in kind.

I don't think I reciprocated... I think I went several steps worse, all apologies to your mum. That shouldn't have been done and I'll try and be more creative and kind in future in debating the merits of torture.

[ShadeHonestus]

Don't hit below the belt with misquoting me and putting swear words in my mouth. As a Nutjob one of my favourite movies naturally is the Nutty Professor, although I admit to preferring the original movie to that of Eddies'... yesteryears movies were so much better... the old times are always better.

If you don't like someone responding in kind to a verbal insult, methinks that you shouldn't be the kind supporting torture as you definitely won't like having that responded in kind.

I don't think I reciprocated... I think I went several steps worse, all apologies to your mum. That shouldn't have been done and I'll try and be more creative and kind in future in debating the merits of torture.

I never misquoted you.

So you can't display any decency in a discussion about something that you disagree with? How wonderfully intolerant of you. Its that type academic honesty which has obviously worked wonders in your quest for knowledge.

[ajaxfetish]

I never misquoted you.

A: So how do we know they have done the bad things.
B: Their neighbours told us.

Quoting Papewaio
A: So how do we know they have done the bad things.
B: Illegal wire taps that allows bush to eavesdrop on your porn calls. 1-800-976- SLUT

Fixed

I believe this was the offending misquotation.

Ajax

[ShadeHonestus]

I believe this was the offending misquotation.

Thank you ajax.

You misquoted me when you put an adjusted phone number with a slur in it and attributed it to me.

I believed as has been done numerous times around the forums that making a quote attributed to somebody and then labeling it as "Fixed" meant that it was edited by the poster and not of original content from the quoted. I did more than adjust a phone number I changed the entire second line. If its the slur you have a problem with I thought I obviously owned that as I wrote it. If it remains ambiguous, I'll state again that this was of my writing, hence the word "fixed". I could have put anything there, but figured "Slut" was of easy and universal recognition with the porn industry.

Normally I try and be decent with people who have an opposing point of view.

This had been my previous experience with you.

That is why I have already apologised once for my actions. My apologies again that I was mean to your and your kin in responding to the mis-represented quotation. I don't think I wish to make it my standard to behave by in being rude even it it is emotionally convenient (boorish were my actions and boorish they remain) as it is neither accurate nor useful in exchanging ideas.

What apology, all I saw were parting shots including one half masked in apology.

As for my academic career you can slur it as much as you wish if it will make you feel better as a fellow human being.

Well if you want to be taken seriously those parting shots in the veiled apology would not have taken place, nor would this have found its way into the discussion. This dishonesty even in apology made me question your academic honesty, that of the exercise of the academic such as our discussions and debates here in the pursuit of understanding, not of an academic career or accumulation of pedigree.

I could see how what I wrote could be taken as such, but this was not the case and if truly taken as such I offer apologies for the misunderstanding.

[KukriKhan]

Temporarily closed, pending staff consultation.

[Papewaio]

You misquoted me when you put an adjusted phone number with a slur in it and attributed it to me.

I don't think being rude is the the standard I wish to live by. My actions were pathetic and boorish. Normally I try and be decent with people who have an opposing point of view. That is why I have already apologised once for my actions. My apologies again that I was mean to your and your kin in responding to the mis-represented quotation.

As for my academic career you can slur it as much as you wish if it will make you feel better as a fellow human being.